Primathon

Cracking the code: The formula for weapon damage based on level and rarity

25 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

It's amazing what you can do with a little bit of math. For example:

Damage for every weapon at every level for every rarity can be determined with exactly three numbers:

  1. The base damage for a level 1, grey weapon. The base damage for the 5.56mm MG is 32.00.
  2. The damage increase per level for #1. Easy to find out in the "boost" screen. The grey 5.56mm increases by 1.83 damage per level.
  3. The base ratio between green and grey rarity levels. A level 1 green 5.56mm does 38.40 damage. Dividing that by #1 gives you a ratio of 1.20.

Seriously. That's all you need. Check the attached graphs. Then check your inventory to confirm. You can also take a look at the weapons comparison page here.

Did you know: The damage boost between rarity levels is exponential?

  1. A green weapon increases by twice as much per level as a grey. For the 5.56mm, greens get 3.66 damage per level.
  2. A blue weapon increases by twice as much per level as a green (4x over grey, 7.32 damage per level for the 5.56mm)
  3. A purple weapon increases by twice as much per level as a blue (8x over grey, 14.64 damage per level for the 5.56mm)
  4. And gold weapons increase by twice as much again, giving legendaries a 16x increase per level over greys. Each level for a gold 5.56 grants 29.28 damage.

The base damage for each rarity level is determined by the base ratio in #3 in the first list. To continue with the example of the 5.56mm:

  1. Level 1 green 5.56 does 38.40 damage. 32.00 * 1.2 = 38.40
  2. Level 1 blue 5.56 does 46.08 damage. 38.40 * 1.2 = 46.08
  3. Level 1 purple 5.56 does 55.30 damage. 46.08 * 1.2 = 55.30
  4. Level 1 gold 5.56 does 66.36 damage. 55.30 * 1.2 = 66.36

So now you've got damage levels for every rarity at level 1, as well as the damage boost per level for every rarity. Extending this formula gives you the damage levels for every rarity at every level.

  • Weapon Damage = (Base Damage * Base Ratio) + (Weapon Level * Damage Boost per Rarity Level)

This also illustrates the problem with rarity levels as they currently exist. Each rarity level is going to be roughly twice as powerful as the one before it. For the CAN-40/70 graph (they're all pretty similar), that works out to:

  • A level 60 grey is as powerful as a level 22 green
  • A level 60 green is as powerful as a level 23 blue
  • A level 60 blue is as powerful as a level 25 purple
  • A level 60 purple is as powerful as a level 26 gold

So, to answer the question: Is that weapon you picked up worth it in the long run?

The definitive answer: If it's not a legendary, it's pretty much garbage.

weapon-can4070.png

weapon-mg556.png

Edited by Primathon
formatting
DustMagic, anas76, ABurned and 5 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick follow-up: I'm finding that some of these numbers are just a teeeeeeeny bit off, especially for the 5.56 at higher rarity levels. I'll toy with the formulas and see if I can get things to line up 100%, but the info above is still probably 98%+ accurate. Just FYI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nicely done @Primathon!

That's a pretty serious increase in damage though per rarity that's not entirely justified imho. It should more be adding 2x to the prior so that:

  • Green is 2x a grey.
  • Blue is 4x a grey.
  • Purple is 6x a grey.
  • Gold is 8x a grey.

Great work, keep it up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One other (dumb) thing I'm seeing in this data: For the CAN-40/70, a level 60 grey has about HALF the damage as a level 1 gold.

That's just absurd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using data I have collected from myself and pictures posted, I have been creating charts for all weapons.  It is a work in progress but it is at https://www.icloud.com/numbers/0lP2ERj1qy9rvjytOjo6RyY-g#Zombie_Gunship .  I have it editable so people can add to it.  I have more charts to add now that I have more data thanks to Primathon.  If you want to download the entire spreadsheet for your own use, use the wrench icon top center right of the screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Dumb question -- how much damage is enough?  I have no Legendary weapons, but I do have 2 Epics -- a 4-star, level-30 5.56 (426.89 Damage -- my veteran gift) and a 3-star, level-20 SNPR-25 (2809.59 Damage, common crate drop).  The sniper takes out Easy & Medium Titans in one shot, Hard Titans in two shots.  Once I jack it to the point where it will waste any Titan in one shot, I fail to see the point in investing any more scratch into it.  Similarly, the AC is so powerful that I no longer ever bother with a second one  I have to wait for zombies to clear obstacles so I don't accidentally destroy the barriers with a stray round or two.  No enemy defence can withstand even 6 rounds (a half-second of fire).  A full 3-second barrage wastes almost anything.  I'm finding myself just upgrading Common & Uncommon fodder just to tick off objectives (trying to build a collection of one of everything up to 3-star just for shits & giggles).  In addition to the 2 Epics, I pack a 3-star Uncommon Griffin just for the wide spreads of Shamblers, and switch to a 3-star Uncommon Hellfire for the more Impaler-intense missions.  I laughed at the pic of the 1-star, level-1 Legendary 40mm/70 -- 4000 Damage?!  What's the point?  Can anything survive that?

Edited by JimmyJazz
just added where Epics came from
ACEGLASS likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, JimmyJazz said:

I laughed at the pic of the 1-star, level-1 Legendary 40mm/70 -- 4000 Damage?!  What's the point?  Can anything survive that?

I think the damage calc for that is a radial spread over the area of effect. I've got it up to LVL15 or so, doing almost 10k damage, and it still doesn't oneshot a Titan on hard. Maybe a 100% direct hit right at his feet, but that'd be it. Really more useful to wreck the Impalers.

how much damage is enough?

Until you're not having trouble with any missions, I guess? There's quite a few in Interstate that still give me a rough time on hard. What level are you?

Edited by Primathon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Level 30.  I still have some trouble with "tight time" missions, such as Stolen Property and Suppression, but I attribute that more to my brain's poor ability to manage so many simultaneous targets than to lack of weaponry.

 

Don't get me wrong; I  lust after level 60 Legendaries as much as the next guy.  I just love to play devil's advocate.

 

Fwiw, love your posts and the weapons page you made.  Awesome!

Edited by JimmyJazz
Primathon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Primathon said:

I think the damage calc for that is a radial spread over the area of effect.

I had wondered about this.  Since, say, a 1900 damage Hellfire will kill every Hard Grief Impaler in its splash radius, I assumed that it was NOT spread calculation, but in fact inflicted the full meal deal on everyone within range.  I've whacked as many as 30 of them at once (fap!), which would be, what -- 62, 63 damage per Imp if it were spread out?  I don't think that would make a scratch.  Open to counter-examples, of course...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@JimmyJazz Yeah I don't know how they calculate damage for area weapons like this. Just tested some direct Titan hits on hard, and for a weapon that says it's doing ~9k damage, it still doesn't kill 'em. Drops the health bar to about 15%, but the target remains.

mabaeyens likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Primathon said:

@JimmyJazz Yeah I don't know how they calculate damage for area weapons like this. Just tested some direct Titan hits on hard, and for a weapon that says it's doing ~9k damage, it still doesn't kill 'em. Drops the health bar to about 15%, but the target remains.

True.

However, my <4k gunship sniper rifle takes them down on one shot, while my 70/40 with >5k does not.

There must be another ratio more difficult to calculate like exposure, where a single bullet obviously cannot damage any surrounding foe (and you can miss them from above if you don't zoom in, but can take three of them down if they are really close, good penetrating bullets indeed!) and a rocket or a missile not just have a higher radius but also spread big quantities of damage in that radius. 

Anyway, titans seem to not follow this (as they did in the original Zombie Gunship), but only take real damage from close up, well targeted, super powerful shots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎18 at 10:04 AM, JimmyJazz said:

Dumb question -- how much damage is enough?  I have no Legendary weapons, but I do have 2 Epics -- a 4-star, level-30 5.56 (426.89 Damage -- my veteran gift) and a 3-star, level-20 SNPR-25 (2809.59 Damage, common crate drop).  The sniper takes out Easy & Medium Titans in one shot, Hard Titans in two shots.  Once I jack it to the point where it will waste any Titan in one shot, I fail to see the point in investing any more scratch into it.  Similarly, the AC is so powerful that I no longer ever bother with a second one  I have to wait for zombies to clear obstacles so I don't accidentally destroy the barriers with a stray round or two.  No enemy defence can withstand even 6 rounds (a half-second of fire).  A full 3-second barrage wastes almost anything.  I'm finding myself just upgrading Common & Uncommon fodder just to tick off objectives (trying to build a collection of one of everything up to 3-star just for shits & giggles).  In addition to the 2 Epics, I pack a 3-star Uncommon Griffin just for the wide spreads of Shamblers, and switch to a 3-star Uncommon Hellfire for the more Impaler-intense missions.  I laughed at the pic of the 1-star, level-1 Legendary 40mm/70 -- 4000 Damage?!  What's the point?  Can anything survive that?

@JimmyJazzI find a singular epic MG 5.56 not enough firepower because it overheats too quickly and the cooldown takes awhile.  Would you be able to post a video on how you are using your loadout on a hard level, 3 building missions that has all the zombie types? I'd be interested to see how you are using your loadout during a mission.  I would like to see where I am losing efficiencies with my MG and can perhaps free up a weapons slot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, you bet.  Do you record the video with this Google Play tool, just like the screenshots?  Where's a good place to upload the video to?

Edit:  The video's 90MB.  Do you post-process them for compression or anything?

Edited by JimmyJazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can someone with the RKT 100 and RKT 120 equipt a plane with both of those and the RKT 40 and screenshot the targeting circle of all three while firing the 100?  I am adding to my spreadsheet the area each covers to calculate how much damage is cause over the area of affect.  I wish I could do a 3D spreadsheet, 2D is just not enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, JimmyJazz said:

Yeah, you bet.  Do you record the video with this Google Play tool, just like the screenshots?  Where's a good place to upload the video to?

Edit:  The video's 90MB.  Do you post-process them for compression or anything?

Unfortunately I'm not sure but @TurboTIB posts videos directly.  Maybe he can shed some light on how he does it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, traisjames said:

Can someone with the RKT 100 and RKT 120 equipt a plane with both of those and the RKT 40 and screenshot the targeting circle of all three while firing the 100?  I am adding to my spreadsheet the area each covers to calculate how much damage is cause over the area of affect.  I wish I could do a 3D spreadsheet, 2D is just not enough.

Here you go: inner target is the 40, middle sized is 120 and large target is the 100s

image.thumb.png.7bcf2877a6cf2ee8dc141e1bcc1ac196.pngimage.thumb.png.4da0c4c3fb87c5ac64ba64714f8c15d9.png

Edited by OnLikeDnkyKong
mabaeyens, traisjames and Primathon like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, OnLikeDnkyKong said:

Unfortunately I'm not sure but @TurboTIB posts videos directly.  Maybe he can shed some light on how he does it :)

@OnLikeDnkyKong I just upload the full-res video to YouTube, it does the down-sampling automatically, then I post the URL to it here in the forums. The flaregames.com site automatically displays the video player in the message window from the URL. Very simple and straight forward.

JimmyJazz and OnLikeDnkyKong like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/21/2017 at 1:43 PM, TurboTIB said:

@OnLikeDnkyKong I just upload the full-res video to YouTube, it does the down-sampling automatically, then I post the URL to it here in the forums. The flaregames.com site automatically displays the video player in the message window from the URL. Very simple and straight forward.

Is there a link to your YouTube vid? I don't see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info, guys.  Im uploading that vid as I type.  I'll edit this post momentarily when it's done and I have a URL...

Ok, here it is.  This is Infrared on hard with an AC, a GS sniper and a missile.

 

 

Edited by JimmyJazz
Posted video
mabaeyens likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎23 at 0:23 AM, JimmyJazz said:

Thanks for the info, guys.  Im uploading that vid as I type.  I'll edit this post momentarily when it's done and I have a URL...

Ok, here it is.  This is Infrared on hard with an AC, a GS sniper and a missile.

 

 

Nicely done! I like how use burst more and then sniper/hellfire for cooldown.  Do you ever run into time difficulties on other missions?   I personally am not of a fan of the hellfire / AGM as they don't suit my play style since they take awhile to launch and strike.  For now I guess I will stick to ACx2 + rockets and see how it goes.  Thanks for posting @JimmyJazz!  Also too bad the door opening and closing sound effect didn't sync up with your troops entering the building... that would've been hilarious :P

anas76 and mabaeyens like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, OnLikeDnkyKong said:

Nicely done! I like how use burst more and then sniper/hellfire for cooldown.  Do you ever run into time difficulties on other missions?   I personally am not of a fan of the hellfire / AGM as they don't suit my play style since they take awhile to launch and strike.  For now I guess I will stick to ACx2 + rockets and see how it goes.  Thanks for posting @JimmyJazz!  Also too bad the door opening and closing sound effect didn't sync up with your troops entering the building... that would've been hilarious :P

Close the door and drop the mic! Oh, drop the bomb, what gives!

Edited by mabaeyens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha! That was just my kids coming and going from playing outside.

I was kind of embarrassed about the missed snipe in the middle, but figured that I made up for it with the double Titan shot in the last second!

Yes, I do have time difficulties on Stolen Property and Suppression.  The latter on hard is still my one missing star.  I have no problem with the impalers at the beginning, but trying to make the long run from building 2 to 3 past the groves is evil.  I always run into more company than I can deal with, stalling my troops.

Edited by JimmyJazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, JimmyJazz said:

Haha! That was just my kids coming and going from playing outside.

I was kind of embarrassed about the missed snipe in the middle, but figured that I made up for it with the double Titan shot in the last second!

Yes, I do have time difficulties on Stolen Property and Suppression.  The latter on hard is still my one missing star.  I have no problem with the impalers at the beginning, but trying to make the long run from building 2 to 3 past the groves is evil.  I always run into more company than I can deal with, stalling my troops.

Use only scouts if your gunship weapons are good and scouts are level 30+, they will survive and stop less, impalers are not at their range unless the troops run into them. Is surviving is the issue, use whatever assaults you have there, the highest level, regardless rarity. Specially if you have M249, they can handle a hit or two ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm running all scouts, and survivabilty is no issue.  I just find that so many shamblers, dogs & titans spawn at once as soon as my guys leave the second building that I can't kill them all before they walk headlong into my path.  The fire & forget nature of rockets might help me here, though I don't really have any levelled up to the task.  Plus I have to take a moment to whack the mortar as soon as it's done helping me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now