Primathon

Crate Drop Rates, Weapon Rarity, Gambling, and how to fix it

17 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Okay guys. Real talk.

This game has some serious problems that are really staring to make a lot of players feel very ripped off. People dropping lots and lots of real money with the expectation that they can pay to advance in the game are getting completely shafted. We get it, free-to-play and pay-to-win will always be at odds, but this isn't multiplayer -- there's no disadvantage here. If someone wants to drop $500 for a bunch of the best weapons, they should be able to. It's their money, why the hell not?

The big issues right now:

  1. Crate drop rates are complete garbage. You know it, I know it, and the devs know it. Everyone is bitching about it, and for good reason.
  2. Common weapons are absolutely worthless past a few levels. Barely worth upgrading, yet that's all you'll get from 99% of your drops. It was cute when I was level 4. Past about 14-15, you just start getting pissed.
  3. The weapon damage scaling means that legendary weapons are basically the only thing really worth having, and everyone wants 'em. Seriously, for a CAN-40/70, a level 60 grey does HALF the damage of a level 1 gold. That's insane.
  4. Metal costs for boosting and fusing high-star weapons are ridiculous, but we'll just leave that on the side for the time being. I've done the math. I know what the values are.
  5. Every weapon you get starts at level 1, with a variable number of stars (which work AGAINST you, btw). Why not have a random roll up to half your current level or something? Give some variety!
  6. Bolts are comically useless. Was that feature even play tested? I've got 1,000x more bolts than I could EVER use. Might as well not be there at all.

What we need is a way to take all the garbage loot that gets acquired and use it to increase weapon rarity. Put another way, give the players a progression path toward the things they want that's not just straight up "cross your fingers and pray" gambling.

  • Combine 3 grey weapons and get 1 green.
  • Combine 4 greens and get 1 blue
  • Combine 5 blues and get 1 purple
  • Combine 6 purples and get 1 yellow.

I don't even care how you do it; these numbers are just examples. Make it cost a bunch of extra metal. Make it so you can only combine weapons above a certain level (as long as it's not completely ridiculous). Make it cost supplies too. Make it so you only have an opportunity to level your weapons like this every time you increase a rank (ooh, you mean an element of strategy that you'd have to modify your play style to work with? interesting...).

Give the players a path toward what they really want.

Seriously. We're okay with grinding. We're okay with playing levels over and over. We'll watch your ads. We'll wait for the loot crate timers. Just tell us that there IS a way, as long as we're willing to put in the effort.

Signed, everybody.

Edited by Primathon

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Posted (edited)

Let me add even one more point to yours: ability to buy any weapon with some constrains (apart from spending precious gold) like they only drop level 1 star 1 or can only be bought on special crates. But if I want a legendary AC30 I should get my damn legendary AC30 if I pay the price.

On a different note, did you play the beta?

  • There was no rarity, there were no bolts and all weapons could be used to both boost and add stars to any weapon. All weapons meaning you could boost a shotgun with a 1 star, level 1 whatever, adding a small percentage, or using a level 3 star, level 30 giving a lot more. Green tick
  • 3 stars weapons dropped at level 20, and 2 stars at 10, so there was a real advantage on getting more stars. Green tick
  • More stars meant better stats, not "power". Not only more damage but also faster cooldown, better accuracy, more salvoes, etc. Green tick
  • Prices were more fair in metal to boost weapons and in supplies to level up buildings. Green tick
  • Weapons killed. Green tick
  • Starting with 0.7, there were even different versions of the same weapon (see @OnLikeDnkyKong post on legendary shotgun pre and post 1.0). Red X
  • And yes, base defence was way too easy to the point of not having to use the gunship if base was at a certain level. Red X
  • You could still buy crates, which without rarity basically became more bang for the buck. Green tick
  • All weapons were boosted after each mission, both wins and defeats, if just a small percentage: 1 star weapons boosted more than 3 star equivalents. Green tick

You can say it louder but not clearer: see how they changed in 0.6 (released in months), shortly after in 0.7 (released in weeks), how it worsened on 1.0 (released in less than 2 weeks, one day before announced), and follow the trend. 

And again, with 5 star reviews coming from everywhere, I wouldn't see the real need to change anything, either.

Edited by mabaeyens
Added Vs and Xs

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And adding one more point. I get it the HQ can only be levelled every “whatever” levels the user got levelled up.

my problem usually is that my supplies are full the level before. Now for example I have to become level 25 for my next HQ update and there is nothing I can spend my supplies on anymore. Increasing the max number of supplies would be a good thing. Better would be if I could sell them for gold and get metal to boost some weapons. Or using supplies to actually build stuff such as additional fences and Defense towers.

but nope I’m Stückes at farming level after level to get XP without real benefits. No crates as I can only stock 4 crates at once. And with the current drop rate I won’t spend more real money for gold to level up. So all I get is a bit of metal and XP. From the crates I get bolts as the weapons are a joke. Leaving me wit frustration and more bolts then I will ever need.

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@ABurned you can use your supplies to upgrade base defense weapons.  I would suggest mortars, but good luck trying to max them.

@Primathon and @mabaeyens both very well said.  There is very little more I can add.  I've been Max rank 30 for a very long time in relation to the game.  I have seen the many updates and have commented on almost all of them.  To be honest only a few pieces of the feedback have been converted into true changes in the game for the players other than the reduction in health of the zombies (a change that never should have happened in the first place). Changes have taken a relatively long time to implement and more importantly a lot of changes were not communicated ahead of time. It basically is here are the changes, bam update the game.... Information on game mechanic rationale and simple game stat reference tables from the developers is non-existent.  They have relied on other players to piece meal weapon stats together that should already be made available directly from the game designers and accessible in game, not just on weapons people already own. 

 

We receive promises from @Nikko that yes we hear you and yes changes are on the way but that is the end of it, any communication updates are few are far between for those here on the forums.  I've reached the point of "talk is cheap."  They need to make some concrete fixes before I ever think of investing serious time into the game.  I would never suggest nor endorse this game to new players given the current game environment. I've tried to warn others about the risk of spending on this game. I and many of the veterans / dedicated players have done all they can do on our end to help the developers via suggestions, bug posts you name it.  It is time for them to reach out to us now because it feels like our suggestions are falling on deaf ears.

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@OnLikeDnkyKong you seems to have missed a good part of my posting. To be able to invest any supplies in anything now (including removing trees or removing waste) my HQ needs to level up. To do so I have a whole level ahead of me. I have 17000 do that I need to get from level 24 in which I am right now to level 25. I already have 11000 supplies and can store ... hmm what? Think of crates and missions (not even to think of the advertisement bonus) that I will get till I reach 17000 xp.

last time i could not level my HQ up was similar. Don’t know was it level 19 where I had everything maxed out and I could not invest any further supplies?

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19 hours ago, ABurned said:

@OnLikeDnkyKong you seems to have missed a good part of my posting. To be able to invest any supplies in anything now (including removing trees or removing waste) my HQ needs to level up. To do so I have a whole level ahead of me. I have 17000 do that I need to get from level 24 in which I am right now to level 25. I already have 11000 supplies and can store ... hmm what? Think of crates and missions (not even to think of the advertisement bonus) that I will get till I reach 17000 xp.

last time i could not level my HQ up was similar. Don’t know was it level 19 where I had everything maxed out and I could not invest any further supplies?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.  Have you maxed and purchased every single stray building available including all defense structures like buses, walls and factories in addition to the trees and waste you mentioned previously?  What is your HQ level right now?  I remember I had problems with supplies storage very early in the game, but by the time I got to HQ 6-7 I had plenty to spend my supplies on.  You will have to forgive me.  It has been probably 3-4 monthes since I have been max 30 level and can't remember what the max storage limits were at particular HQ levels

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2 hours ago, OnLikeDnkyKong said:

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.  Have you maxed and purchased every single stray building available including all defense structures like buses, walls and factories in addition to the trees and waste you mentioned previously?  What is your HQ level right now?  I remember I had problems with supplies storage very early in the game, but by the time I got to HQ 6-7 I had plenty to spend my supplies on.  You will have to forgive me.  It has been probably 3-4 monthes since I have been max 30 level and can't remember what the max storage limits were at particular HQ levels

Yes all maxed out the next steps are only possible once i level up the HQ. I can scroll along on he whole map :-/

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Right, so you will need to get to rank 25 until you can level up all buildings. If you have levelled up already each and every tower, mortar, key building and defensive building and removed every toxic waste and infected oak, you may indeed end up with 55000 (or max if I'm wrong) supplies and not been able to store more. Similar to what happens with crates if you have all 4 slots complete and play a new mission, you lose the crate. 

Metal is a different thing, as you can keep boosting weapons, fusing, etc. as long as you have a weapon.

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Well even if I’m level 25 and updated I still can not go crazy on my towers, fences and so on there is at least one more HQ level that I need to reach until I can bring this guy to level 8. Or what ever the max is :-/

IMG_1214.PNG

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Wow, I don't ever recall running into a issue where I couldn't upgrade anything at that HQ 6.  What is even more amazing is that given the current game play, it is hard to amass a lot of metal and supplies due to penalties too.  I can't believe you aren't a higher player level given you have maxed everything, that's crazy.

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9 hours ago, OnLikeDnkyKong said:

Wow, I don't ever recall running into a issue where I couldn't upgrade anything at that HQ 6.  What is even more amazing is that given the current game play, it is hard to amass a lot of metal and supplies due to penalties too.  I can't believe you aren't a higher player level given you have maxed everything, that's crazy.

 

11 hours ago, ABurned said:

Well even if I’m level 25 and updated I still can not go crazy on my towers, fences and so on there is at least one more HQ level that I need to reach until I can bring this guy to level 8. Or what ever the max is :-/

IMG_1214.PNG

I think what he means is that at least now (I don't recall during beta), being for example at HQ 5 does not mean that each and every building can be levelled up to level 5 too. Some of them just became available and therefore are level 1, not upgradeable, and only very few can indeed keep up with the same level than the HQ.

Only at HQ8, which can only happen when reaching rank 30, all buildings can be maxed to level 8, all of them. Until then, in HQ6 and HQ7 you will also have some buildings capped at levels 1, 2, 3, etc. and that cap is only gone when HQ8 is reached.

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9 hours ago, OnLikeDnkyKong said:

Wow, I don't ever recall running into a issue where I couldn't upgrade anything at that HQ 6.  What is even more amazing is that given the current game play, it is hard to amass a lot of metal and supplies due to penalties too.  I can't believe you aren't a higher player level given you have maxed everything, that's crazy.

Agreed.  I think @ABurned should become a financial adviser! 😁

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Advertisements and using the bonus packs you receive when getting to a specific level. Some of those bonus packed showed up twice for me. So yes kind of cheating by investing real money.

in the fist few levels I actually bought supplies. Now I don’t do that anymore. As I waisted gold that way. Actually I am now at the point that my warehouse is almost full and I still have 10000xp ahead of me. This time i only bought metal for guns to get my weapons better and unlocking some crates. But this baby (heck I never use those type of weapon) arrived by breeding a common crate in 3 hours :-/

IMG_1221.PNG

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9 hours ago, ABurned said:

Advertisements and using the bonus packs you receive when getting to a specific level. Some of those bonus packed showed up twice for me. So yes kind of cheating by investing real money.

in the fist few levels I actually bought supplies. Now I don’t do that anymore. As I waisted gold that way. Actually I am now at the point that my warehouse is almost full and I still have 10000xp ahead of me. This time i only bought metal for guns to get my weapons better and unlocking some crates. But this baby (heck I never use those type of weapon) arrived by breeding a common crate in 3 hours :-/

IMG_1221.PNG

Yo man! Stop opening crates dropping legendary and let the RNG share out out to some of us as well!

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I've found the cannons to be pretty useless, myself.  I prefer the missiles as my tertiary weapon.  I think I'd start practicing if I received that, though.  It'd be fun on Grief! 😁

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10 hours ago, ABurned said:

I wish it would be that easy. But that is my first ever and I actually find it not useful at all :-/ would have preferred a automatic gun.

That's the one I use in epic, but at level 20, it does 5915 damage. Yours at level 10 inflicts some 20% more! That would definitely help on Grief

4 hours ago, JimmyJazz said:

I've found the cannons to be pretty useless, myself.  I prefer the missiles as my tertiary weapon.  I think I'd start practicing if I received that, though.  It'd be fun on Grief! 😁

Honestly I was done with missiles but with this feedback, will give them a go again. Cannons work well for me, when they group, after a round of rockets to pave the way.

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