Apple of Discord

Yeah - I’ve got the apple. Any tips on who to best use it with? 

Because it doesn’t buff BIA and a lot of my heroes use BIA, should I drop BIA when I’m using the apple?

Prometheus only has two powers and I have BIA in the second slot. Will an apple be good for him?

My tip here would be that for every 1% CD you need around 5% potency to cover the loss of cool down for powers vs the extra boost of powers, via potency. In essence, I don’t think the apples are so powerful, unless you manage to have a max out CD on heroes to compensate, but that takes a lot of refinings. 2 max CD rings and a max cape CD, are effective for most of the heroes we have (there are a few exceptions, but require some good setups). 

I would use apple(s) with Athena, Perseus and Helen mostly… it’s heroes with power slots, shielded and ready for deadly action. You still need high (max) CD though. You can use a slot for BIA with these for sure, so it’s not a huge loss. I wouldn’t use it with Prometheus, only 2 power slots and he is slow, he needs Bia (as does Cadmus for example). Again, there really needs to be a balance for the setup. This is just my opinion, there are people who would max potency over CD, you can try that and compare your two setups (they don’t have to be maxed, just be sure that you try a lot of potency vs a lot of CD on one of the 3 heroes I mentioned)… just do it on your base, rather than vs an opponent… it can be costly.

Apples are good when levelling up, as you can still get by at any level with nearly all heroes using an apple, and it costs less than forging CD rings every couple of levels. The only issue I have is that at max level they won’t be really used - their stats are way down on any ‘normal’ ring you can create yourself, and potency although got an improvement isn’t the right perk for top lvl bases. CD/Stun rules as we know.  I still can’t believe apples still have such bad stats compared to ‘normal’ objects, there’s nothing really unique about them, the true uniques are things like Caddy armour with CD perk on armour where you would never actually find it ever even in a cursed item. Check the images below the ring was forged one level ago so is technically ‘old’ the apple is this level (147) and had good stats for an apple (I’ve had more than half a dozen so I know what a good apple looks like)

@tjgarlandone apple is a good option for Prom, especially as you level up.

Screenshot (2884).jpg

But you have mentioned their unique attributes and benefits, which are used by a lot of people… though I disagree, I believe making CD rings is much better every couple of levels, than using a 5* titan over a unique in this case (even Cadmus/Helen uniques are awful compared to a refined item with CD). There are benefits to making a good CD ring, one of them is you can slowly upgrade them while using your other rings, second is you can refine them with a nice perk like demo/fb and only lose a small % and third you can later re-use that 5* or even 3* if you may. That’s why we need a use of uniques for the long run, starting now, when most people have a lot of duplicates.

On the other hand, if you aren’t planning to kill GK (which most of your heroes won’t), I value potency over any other perk other than CD… so on a ring, I got a potency/CD ring ONCE, and i still have it in my inventory, since before 131 I think. So an apple, saves you a “slot”, you get both perks in one item, and be able to do much more with the rest of your items.

If you want to make a hero full of CD/Potency, which is potentially better (but harder) than max CD/Stun, even for GK takedown… then the way to do it with the least possible refines, is with 2 apples. Otherwise, if you have something else on the rings, then it takes minimum 5 refinements to get even close to 75% and 50% potency. Having the two apples, will get you much easier to 75% & 75%…

Here is more data on that. Stat numbers are for my level, but % will work for any level exactly the same.

A) No apples: Goal is max potency/CD

CD

  1. Max CD on green (29500) and then making it titan max = 180k 
  2. Using 3 items (2 rings and 1 cape) = 540k
  3. 75% for non CD boosted hero = 740k
  4. Refining at max one item, is around 70%. 180k refined can be 126k

Total CD = 68% with around 666k (1 refining - lets assume vest with CD)

Potency

If you don’t refine the cape for obvious reasons, you have 4 items left to refine (assume shielded hero)

  1. Assume you got a weapon with potency. Max green is around (12k) making it max titan 5* = 74k
  2. Refining 3 remaining items, at 70% = 51k each = 153k
  3. 75% for potency = 295k

Total potency = 57% with around 227k (1 weapon + 3 refinings)

b) With 2 apples: Goal is max potency/CD

In both cases, you have an apple maxed on your level, mine would be: 106k potency + 121k CD AND 108K potency + 127k CD

CD

  1. CD cape with same logic as above 180k
  2. 3 refinings with same logic as above 126k x3 = 378k

As above logic CD is 81% with 806k (so some to spare for level up)

Potency

  1. Weapon same logic as above 74k

As above logic potency is 73% with 288k (my apples are very bad btw)

Conclusion, you are more than maxed out in the apple case, with 1 refinings to add what you want. By using pheme (since you are at 75% CD), you pretty much do not need a lot of resistances, which means that you can refine two weapons with stun and gather some of that too. If someone follows the rule of 1% CD = 5% potency then you can work your way for this setup

I suppose there is also a use of the apple at max lvl as sort of a throw away item, refine of an apple at max lvl will give an additional boost which might make it worth doing compared to a standard forge/refine of a ring. 

But in your examples was good you mentioned shielded heroes as they have a big advantage in that the gain a useful boost to phys res and can add a useful perk.  

Potency did get the boost last update to make it attractive compared to CD, but really it’s still really a no-brainer CD over potency every time I would say. So once you have near max CD you could consider adding potency, but then with max CD a base shouldn’t be the issue, the GK will be the next thing to focus on and IMO potency doesn’t really help at the GK that much.

Potency is pretty good on prom IMO because he relies so heavily on his unique power and you can be permanently on fire and bia’ed without max CD.

If you are saying get the CD for those 2 powers to be constant, and then adding potency, I would not disagree. But since he has no potency unique, then you need the two apples, to get some kind of action going, it might work well getting CD up with just a cape, otherwise how is it even possible? LOH gets so much deteriorated (with refines), that you still need physical/lightning the very least for him… pheme is out of the question since you mentioned the two powers, so what’s left? I feel its hopeless for him.

I really would like to see a full war of Prom, like Calimera uses him… I can’t believe she uses him without difficulties. Naturally, she picks the bases suited for him to raid, but still… how can he beat them without deaths, invos or get the GK ?

How do you beat tough GK? Raw damage and stun? That’s a one way street, you can’t beat them all like that… Powers are actually what can be used to take advantage of GK’s weak spots… physical is usually maxed on most of the GK’s. Athena’s that use potency… if 5 powers are selected wisely, can make the battle really easy for her vs GK. I think it’s better than stun, but both would help even more. Helen and Perseus can also be good matchups vs tough GK.

It’s math… try full potency. Over stun, you get faster to the GK as well, since stun doesn’t help with structures along the path… which is why I said apples have those 2 perks needed more for the whole battle. More time vs the GK, with bigger powers, can be very effective. One of the ways you can beat those tough GK’s. I rank stun 3rd along with FB vs GK, but stun is very easy to max out with just rings and weapons… so people tend to start there. No harm, just getting used to it without actually trying anything else.

I wish there was a training ground, where we could test setups @CaptainMorgan, or at least use other hero items/uniques, just for my base, so I can test out more… 

I actually thought the same thing the other day regarding a training area and either just a players GK as you could select, and then you can adjust your own % figures to see how it would work before the investment of millions of gold and wisdom to find it doesn’t work how you thought it might. 

For Prom the bases aren’t so much the problem and even in some ways he’s better than Herc as his fire clears waves without too much effort so you can get an army to the GK much quicker. BUT he falls down as all non-shield heroes do against the well built GK’s with AD bug etc, he can die very quickly (even with 50% phys res) , and even running for regen health can’t be done fast enough.  I think if FG sorted out the excessive damage done by GK’s Prom would get a lot more use as would other non shield heroes.

I’ve never played around with 2 apples, but I think the magic number for bia and pyro is around 55% CD. Not impossible at all to hit with an apple, a CD ring, a cape and maybe one refine. The extra shield you get from the potency helps to keep him alive.

Also, your rule about no deaths is an artificial construct, although I know that’s how you play. All sorts of possibilities get opened up if you get rid of resistances, though.

It’s actually so deep, it relies on a lot of things.

  1. 120 ambrosia is 11-12 gems, not to mention the rest of the deaths
  2. Ambrosia is needed for raiding, not just 1 raid because I go all beast on a setup.
  3. Unless you get like cursed items, at all levels, you can’t really keep up with no resistances. You already have to wear like vest/boots and shield… I’m nor saying I will refine weapons with resistance, but I do keep up with these items. I value health for loh, and there is no reason carrying an old cursed DR/leadership cloth, just because it’s there. When I level up, I use a few 4* greens, maybe blues if a good hero, and finish my titan 1*. I keep a standard set of rings with cursed DR/resistances and use them for all my heroes (Odysseys).
  4. Getting low on health at a tough corner, makes the hero go backwards. I’ve seen AP go back and forth like 2-3 times at the same spot, and not dying. In those occasions, I wish the hero died. The point of AP, imho is not to look. If I have to worry about time, more than I have to worry about my hero arriving at a GK and stealmate the battle… it would defy the point, it would be even worst, as you can’t do anything about it… So at the same time, even if you aren’t AP, you lose time, or die, pay ambrosia and move on.
  5. It’s also a matter of prestige… I like staying alive, and beating bases or Odysseys without dying
  6. As you know, this started way back, when you would fill your resources, raid war and get gems at the end… still valid, still counts a lot. There is no logic not do it. I’m a proud free-gem user, it matters more to me, maybe that’s the biggest point in our discussion? As a matter of fact, I would like to see the top10 trophy on spending $$$, just out of curiosity.
  7. No resistances, means a lot of loh (less damage) or pheme (high CD). I can’t afford both of these options for my heroes for now.
  8. Odysseys

Most important, is wasting wisdom on Odysseys… some of those Iapetus or Apollo towers, are like 4-5 times deadlier than normal maxed out towers… its crazy, whats the point I lose my ambrosia and wisdom there, if I can’t stay alive. I use 4-5 heroes, I don’t refine everyone else, I dont have the time before maxing. 

I did use Odysseus hero, to go back to his “station” today… I had to go through 5-6 islands, so the 750 ambrosia was not completely re-wasted… he did ok, but it was easy bases. I think he died twice in total, maybe twice in one island, so 3 times in total. He had like 50% physical and 50% lightning… the ambrosia from dying was wasted again. It cut me back from my normal raids. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

I got no problem to die and move on the battle, it’s not an obsession, but I also don’t like it when it happens, for the above reasons. It’s also a signal of a good opponent, a good base, or time to check my heroes… I just like building around it. My Cadmus has 35% poison, so does Athena, Helen doesn’t have… Hercules isn’t full physical (my only non-shielded) and he struggles with tough GK, which is why he is out of the war… Lightning is obviously important, fire is close… but then again Cadmus is 50%, and I can’t afford to give him more. I use a damage vest, but how long is that going to last? Perhaps a refined fire, will max him out, and gain a new needed perk.