August/September Questions

Here’s the space for the next two months of questions! We will try to get answers to the June/July questions as soon as possible.

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when a hero meets a GK …

lets assume a lvl20 hercules of a lvl148 player dishes out 50k damage (with a rate of max 200% AS, but that should not matter now).
he faces a lvl20 GK of a player with the same lvl148. lets assume this GK has max damage reflex (so 63% on GK) and max physical shield (so 75% on GK).
then he faces a lvl20 GK of a player with max lvl150. lets assume this GK has also max damage reflex (so 63% on GK) and max physical shield (so 75% on GK).

Q: does the GK of the lvl150 reflect more damage back then the one of the lvl148 player?
Q: if yes (thats what i assume, bc the internal stats for those max. % are higher) can you give for the excample above values of the reflected damage (if something is missing to answer this, please add and tell)?

the perk “stun” forces the GK to be stunned for 0.4s if it procs.

lets assume a (lvl20) hero (of a player with lvl148 if this matters) with attack speed of 200%.

Q: how many hits per second does this hero do?
Q: how many % of stun is needed such that the GK stands still with a probability of 90%?
Q: what is the max % of stun? ( i assume 75% for heros)

Q: did old uniques also get a “normalisation” when they are forged in the “new” forge, even if they have not been super-dooper, hyper forged in the old forge (if this was possible there, idk)?
if yes, do you think this was the best solution? (i cant help but i have the feeling like perks of old but unforged unique are kind of useless. and furthermore i do not know what happens when those uniques are refined: will the new added perks be also low in values or not?)

so maybe i try to reformulate the question(s):
on normal items the quality of the transferred perk is independant from other perks on the item it is transferred to and the higher the value of the perk on the item that gets dismantled is, the higher the value of the transferred perk.
what about refining uniques: here normally the values of the perks of the dismantled item do not play a role. is this true also for refining uniques? if not, what determines the quality (or the values) of the transferred perks when refining uniques?

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edit: (bc no more than 3 repies in a row can be done…)

Q: is there also a cap on the damage that a hero can deal out (like the one on LoH)? or on command or health? i mean on those where no % values are shown.
if there is a cap - is it on the sum of the base values and rare perks or are those rare perks capped only and added to an uncapped base value? how does caps work with such not-% mixed base and rare perks stuff?

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I’m pretty sure the reflection would be the same on the 148 and the 150, the only difference is how much perk value you need to cap the reflection on different levels, but it’ll be 63% nevertheless

yes, the % values on the GK are the same if maxed out. but i ask for the absolute damage that is reflected back and if this is dependent on the internal absolute value those % are related to. and they are different for each level. and i just wonder if or how player level difference is respected. or if the level difference just plays a role for how much the hero and the GK can dish out / take in but it does not matter for calculation the reflection. just want to be sure, thx.

i hope it is clear what i mean.

In general I think that any “percentage-based” perks act the same for all levels, if the % are the same. Higher levels do have advantages in Leadership, Damage and Heath (so also LoH, and LoH cap :wink:). Troops heroes take the most out of leadership, solos benefit from higher damage, GK enjoys more health and LoH. The differences of 5 ascension levels in these values are noticeable. I think that it’s fair and works quite well. It gives enough incentives for levelling up.

Of course you should know what you are doing while levelling up. Some levelled up and became stronger, some became weaker. I went from lv137 to lv140 recently, and the GK became weaker. But for me it’s just a temporary 1 step backward for 2 steps forward.

P/S: if you reflect more (absolute) damage then you don’t respect the percentage. It can’t be both ways. I know your concerns about the absolute value of DR. I tested it with 75% DR, and higher than that (still shows 75% DR but the value is higher, by a good amount), the results were the same. I only tested the amount of damage taken, not reflected damage, but I guess that it tells enough.

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How would the reflect % be the same and reflect more absolute amount? Do you know what % means?

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here is what i mean. bc even if i agree to what you have said and i also tend that it is calculated that way, there might be different ways depending on the given definition and calculations.

you notice in the 2nd way of calculation (that is hopefully unlikely and not the case bc here you may also have the possibility that you are not be able to scratch the GK if you are too weak…) you get an (additional) drawback fighting a higher player lvl GK. i asked the Q just to be sure and falsify the calculation.

edit: the given numbers are not real and also not every effect is taken into account.

Q: the percentage cap of the physical (or any other elemental) protection is given without respecting a possible damage reflection, right?

if this is the case and we have a GK with lots of DR then we could or better should OVERFORGE those perks to get more out of them. right? or is this an unintended behaviour (like the popular demo+FB bug) and we can expect this to be fixed asap…

DR is calculated second in the order of operations. So if a GK (or hero) has 75% physical resistance and gets dealt 1000 purely physical damage, 750 physical damage is resisted and 250 phys dam gets through. Damage reflection is then calculated. If the GK has 50% DR, 125 damage is taken and 125 damage is reflected back. Note that the lower the physical resistance (or any resistance) the more damage gets past DR, but also more damage is reflected offensively. You can decide if you want to use DR More Offensively or Defensively based on how much resistance you give your hero.

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argh - thx for that and sorry for the Q.
the order of DR and protection as well as the question was also already part of the Q&A from jan/feb …(https://forums.flaregames.com/t/january-february-q-a-answers/27476/2)

its just that a member of my alliance says that his GK is more dureable if he uses phys.resistance beyond the cap. and i was like : “hmm, should not be the case”, but then thought if something like the above Q might have something to do with his observation. seems like i have to think further. damn it, i wished my brain would be more efficient.

also thx for the hint of using DR more in favor of offense or defense.

edit: oh wait - the order of DR in the Q&A is vice versa…??

Sorry for bringing the good news, the order is the other way around.

So you don’t need to choose between survival and offense when it comes to reflected damage. The quote of @NaN below was the answer to my question. But of course we shall do a small test to confirm :wink:

This is with 0% lightning:

This is with 90% lightning:

In both case each series of spikes resulted in about 25% of barricade destruction. If DR is calculated in second phase it’d be 10 times the difference, which is not the case as we can see here.

This also answers @NaN questions about the direction of reflected damage vs. the damage sources’ positions.

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thx a lot, and well done and respect for that.

so it might be also possible that the resistance caps are missleading if they do not take DR into account?

if yes, the question is should the caps be reduced w.r.t. DR, or should the the visualisation/calculated be adopted s.t. they are displayed correctly and as with a high DR it is possible to forge more than displayed now…

edit: or it has nothing to do with each other :thinking: i am kind of tired for the moment and confused :woman_facepalming: sorry, but i have a good excuse :joy:

The combination specifically of resistances and DR seem to be working exactly as mentioned and calculated. At least physical + DR, I have done extensive tests, and it always add up.

I dont know if that applies when other factors come in place.

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Q: are the frostbite amplifiers (+100% damage +200% ice) of the attack swing that proced it applied before or after the caps of reflection and protections?

edit: since or if you calculate with % only for reflection and protection, there is no hard cap for those amplifiers, right? and dont get me wrong, i am not asking for a change…

I think that it’s just +200% Ice, so overall 3X damage, 2/3 of that is ice (you made 4X damage in the table of several posts above).

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yes you are absolutely right, i missquoted the answer to FB damage, thx:

[but: some % are given reltively, like those in the hero infos for e.g. strength… or ariadne would do no damage.]

questions concerning attack rate:

  • you gave a player informations concerning attack rates of towers for the wiki but he could not manage to bypass those informations (no offense). can you share those informations to all of us, maybe we can help und try to understand.
  • what does attack speed (AS) for a hero really mean? e.g. lets take a lvl 20 hero of a lvl148 and a lvl150 player. lets assume this hero has no AS (neither as a hero property, nor from items or odyssey): how many attacks per second does this heroes do in compare? and what if both use a maximum of 200% AS (does it male a difference from which source we gain AS?). if there are further or different factors that have to be taken into account, can you tell us those?

bc you cap the visual effekt of AS at some point it is hard to determine how often a hero really does a swing but this value would be so important to know imho because it influences so many perks and abilities. thx in advance.

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Q: is it possible that have making levelling up more easier and faster that the matchmaker/odyssey got confused a bit or those players that level up fast (intentional or not) face massive problems due to various reasons?

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Q: does the back reflexted damage from damage reflection also hase a kind of cap and on with parameter / perk does it depend on since if there is one we cannot see it. or do we? or does it depend on the amount of dr of the reflecting oponent?

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Q: is it possible e.g. to mix also normal perks and rare/cursed perks of the same type when it comes to refining of normal or unique items? or is for refining unique items the order/position of the perks of the item to be dismantled also of importance? is it different for normal/cursed/unique items? it should not as far as i understood, but a member of my alliance reported a strange behaviour like he got correct perks shown for a normal item but ? for a unique. unfortunately he did not take screenshots. as far as i understood he choose correct perks for refining boots of perseus but got others (but i agree that missunderstandigs can happen quickly in game chat, but i asked several times for the perks he took)

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Q: if we decide not to max forge an item at titan level, the loss of perk values is predictable. are there any other drawbacks that are not so easily predictable (like hidden stats, item level, or whatever) and cause major disadvantages when it comes to e.g. refining of those perks? (or is it „only“ the reduced values that play a bigger and bigger role during silver / gold refineing as they cummulate) can you give an example if possible too?

############### edit due to not more then 3 posts in a row are allowed…
regards masteries: the max. possible vlaue increase with fame. the min value also (?) and at the same rate compared to the max. one (?) or does the gap between min and max values get bigger?
do the odds to get towards the max. possible value increase with every “fail” and pressing “new quality”? e.g. a mechanism like the odds for getting a unique that increases by 0.2% to ge one… (i dont think that this is the case right now, but it would be great if the min value of the possible range would increase each time until you have reached a value of about 80% of the max one. but maybe players with already high fame would benefit more from this.

e.g. in the example below if you want a value >2.9% it already gets really expensive…
image

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regards this new unique (i dont have one): the perks on it are unique and cannot be found anywhere else… if someone decides to refine it, how can he be sure which perks are transferred?
image

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