Balancing Failure: Highest Level Players: Same Path Shape, Same Towers, Same Defensive Units!

I want to note, that I am making this post because:

Despite the common belief I think FlareGames is actually paying decent attention.

Granted they take care of problems that lose them money first.  (Wouldn’t you?)  They already let us have the game for free how much more of a charity do you want to make it?  These people need to get paid for all their programming!

Anyway, a while ago, I asked for more color choices specifically in green, and now I have the new dark green and silver!  So thank you Flare!

So since I believe Flare is listening:

 

These are huge balancing problems!

The highest level players all have the same basic path shape, use the same usually 2 maybe 3 towers, and and use the same 3 or 4 units for defense! 

What sucks is at lower levels you have a very interesting game with so much variety and so many ways to attack so many bases! 

At the upper levels I’m fighting the same battle every time against the same damn skull towers and the same damn bomb towers with maybe one or two firebolt or snake towers.  But you created so many other forms of defense that you failed to give enough levels to allow us to have the variation to properly enjoy the game!

Same with combat, the defensive units were so interesting.  But now at high levels the defensive line ups are all the same!

What made the game fun was the variation.  Your failing though because at the high levels there is no variation. 

The simplest solutions is just to get more levels of upgrades to the units that aren’t getting used.

And for the towers, more levels, but in particular for the towers that pour: frost, gargoyle, and snake: make their upgraded levels increase their range so they do at least some damage to the whole path!  No more half assing it on the path?

Hello Maerique,

 

thank you very much for your input. We are aware of the problem since a while and we are working on a solution. We hope to improve the situation with features we plan to implement for the upcoming update.

 

Cheers,

Jan

I knew they were listening!  :slight_smile:

Good job, Maerique. You’re right, highest levels have almost the same base and units defending…

I’m a little bit upset about this.  :slightly_frowning_face:

We always used to disagree on everything! 

What happened to us?  :slightly_frowning_face:

Trust me , theres a lot of variation at the top level despite what you saw and it is also very well balanced since FG fix the wolf howl.Aside from the base design , which you can’t do anything about it , the game have good variation at top level.

 

Every base are different , you can try them.Same design , same tower , same units but different placement , different timing and different wave composition.We have 7 towers and 4 towers useful at top level (snake , fb , bomb , skulls) only 5 units are not useful in top level , pyromancer mortar paladin ogre and gargoyle.

 

All the redundant towers and units more widely use at lower levels , at some point they become redundant.Is that a problem ? No , it is actually imo normal.If let say FG buff something , then players will adapt and the buffed units will be more present while there will be a useful units that become redundant due to the new buff.Like when mummy boost arrive , ogre become redundant.Spikes become powerful , less barricade placed.

 

You see , it won’t be more varied than how it is now.Variety at top level means tower/obstacles placement , waves composition and timing.

 

Let’s assume everything you said is correct!

Only 5 units are not useful: 5/12

4 towers are actually useful: 4/7

In each case that’s almost 50% of the game that’s become useless!

And you said the path problem can’t be fixed!  That’s just lazy inside the box thinking.

Of course it can be fixed make a new danger to adjacent lanes to balance the pros against the cons.

I have been at the very top level for around 7 months , I know what I’m talking about.You cant fix path , whatever is good people will copy.You can have many good decent design but only one will be the best and most used.Not everyone prefer to have their original design , most only copy.

50% is a lot and balanced out defence with offence , you must understand that some things are meant to be less useful at some point.Back then it used to be way less varied where you have 3 standard spell and either firebolt or skull tower in base with only blockade as obstacles and people fill waves with mortar pyro arbs froster.

 

The current standard path is the best because the adjacent lane design is too powerful due to failures in balancing. 

 

Possible solutions to balance this and weaken the adjacent lanes design are:

 

A flying/fire-breathing dragon that can fly across lanes: skipping the whole L and heading straight for the castle.  That will f*ck with them!

 

Another blanancing solution is a unit that can convert at range therefore converting units in adjacent lanes so that the attackers can gain a possition well ahead of their farthest ahead unit. This would again weaken that design.

 

And the simplest is a convert spell with a wide enough radius it can convert across the lanes. 

 

If you want to read all about my great ideas you can read them here:

 

http://forums.flaregames.com/topic/5354-re-update-185-social-features-war-champions-and-shields/

Yeah right , flying dragon that went straight for the tent

For what ? It’ll eliminate choke point and make all range unit useless.

I guess, regarding types of units and towers being used in high / top lvl bases there’s indeed a little more variety than a year ago.

Though, a year ago there weren’t even dungeons/monsters (or maybe they were, but let’s say 14 months ago they weren’t… anyway, I guess you get what I want to say), so more troop types are available now, so the % of useful units didn’t really increase. For obstacles it did increase (boosted barricade and boosted trap now, compared to only blockade before), and for towers, it also increased a bit (+ boosted bomb tower, sometimes snake). 

 

Now, while I agree that there’s lots of difference in the details (and also some non-standard designs being used), there are still some units heavily present in most/all high/top lvl bases (e.g. mummies (+ spawned knights), frosters, arbs), a few more present in some / used to fill up empty spots (archers, wolf, cannon) and quite some not used at all (pyromancer, mortar, paladin, ogre, gargoyle). So there’s still a heavy tendency to mass-use a few troop types, and quite many are ignored altogether, which leaves balancing-wise plenty of room for improvement IMHO.

Especially if e.g. the last regularly unlocked unit (mortar) isn’t used, and the 3rd-last regularly unlocked unit (pyromancer) isn’t used, the argument “nooby stuff for beginners only” (which is just an excuse for not optimal balance as well) just doesn’t fit. Beginners can’t use mortars, you unlock it at medium lvl only. By then, other troops are levelled up a lot further so the lvl 1 mortar isn’t much use yet. When you have enough gold and time to level up your mortar, you get a short time where you could effectively use it, and then this last-unlocked troop gets useless again in high lvl. 

I mean, the knight (first unit available) was useless in high lvl until it got additional levels and a boost, but now the boosted knight is just as useful as many other (boosted) units - and for unboosted medium lvl bases the unboosted knight probably also is useful - now the knight is useful* from start to end, being balanced. So it should be possible to make other currently useless units useful as well. 

(* still, knights, even boosted aren’t overpowered as they alone won’t win your raid, nor make you unbeatable, given you face a base that is as high lvl as your offense is)

 

Concerning layouts, the variety seems to have increased a little bit since introduction of 29 path tiles, but I agree with Fii, copy cats will always copy, and it will always work to copy unless flaregames completely changes the whole base building system - and I guess this won’t happen and also many players (not just copy cats) wouldn’t like it either - so it’ll be hard to tackle that issue (given it is one).

Nonetheless, base layouts will always depend on what units and towers are the most useful. The bomb tower boost with increased range together with longer paths made some more different layouts feasible, and a couple of months ago where the tanky boosted ogre boosted wolf combo was in fashion, we saw many bases with barely any path overlap, then the boosted cannon bases with maximum overlap came in fashion, then the (overpowered) arblaster basically replaced cannons for the biggest part, yielding also path-overlap heavy bases. Though, the powerful mummies being tanky melee troops made it feasible to reduce classical path overlap a bit if you want to, even if across-path long range bombers and arblasters as well as buffed / bugged (?) frosters still are favouring some kind of path overlap for at least part of your base. 

So, when the balance in terms of troops and towers gets further improved with more viable options / alternatives, the amount of viable base layouts will most likely also increase, even if there will still be some standard designs as they will always exist as long as you can copy layouts from others.