Defense OP

attack-defense
#1

Quote from rootdr

‘‘I literally cannot express my disgust and dismay in this game after playing it for almost a year spending countless hours upgrading and buying germs and upgrading only to find that everyone I play against who is at a similar level to me… Completely destroys my highest guys with absolute highest level powers possible. It is so unfair and unrealistic I absolutely hate everything about it. It is so unfair and unrealistic I absolutely hate everything about it. Gameplay is the worst.’’

Until now I have thinking that I was alone to find defense a little too much OP and for me I think Perseus is a little OP when used in Gatekeeper

Maybe its the new level from the server update few month ago. With all +1 level who make the game impossible or a pain right now

Same at 80 I have got some trouble in some base but at this level was less horrible than 90. 90 was a real pain. Nyx and double Nyx plus Phoenix. Now I have reach 100 and its just too much crazy. i have try some hero and lost. Too much insane. Only my Achilles can win enough easily and same with Titan 5 Stars I stuggle to do raid without spend gems. If I count the number of gems I have waste since let’s say 4 month. Over 1000 gems. That not help me to improve my account and all.

So i build this topic to allow everyone to talk about defense all levels 40,50,90,100,130 or 150. What you think and if you want to give some tricks to the others

I remember my previous account in 2017. I have reach level 105 without any boost and without close nothing. I have never got trouble to beat all base. So what change they make until today to bring defense so much OP?

Maybe the % enhanced the problem. The Odyssey is fun really fun but maybe have bring unbalance to the game. If someone have tower or stuffs at 20% or more its maybe the problem too much hard. Before the game was super easy because odyssey was not there.

I remember a quote from CaptainMorgan who said someone can just sit on the same level and stop leveling and just up his % of enhancement. So nothing stop a level 50 to be at 10k fame with 20% stuffs and be OP for all player around. Same thing for a level 100. Nothing stop someone to be at 20k fames with 40% stuffs and be OP for all around.

Maybe they should have a system of cap like trophy? Level 40 max is 5%. Level 70 is 7% level 90 is 8% level 110 is 10%,etc…

What you think?

#2

I think if they could do it all over again, they would/should have ascension level-gated upgrades to the Hero Temple. Having a max level temple and lower level everything else was always a great strategy, now it’s a really great strategy until you get into the very highest levels. 

There also hasn’t been anyone on staff to do balancing changes in the past 6 months. Balancing changes used to be a fairly regular thing. But they require a staff. 

#3

that remember me RR2. They add stuffs,they add stuffs,they add stuffs who broke balance each times. They don’t take time to balance each stuffs. So when we play its really a pain. i know the idea of Odyssey was from me. Sometime I regret to have propose this idea. The game was less a pain before 3.4.0

forge bug have bring some top player with OP items and Odyssey have bring some base too much OP.

Like dumpster said a huge job to remake all this game.

#4

Even the odyssey, though, they’ve rebalanced that a half dozen times. It’s completely possible for them to go through and make balancing changes. Nothing is stopping them, except for time, money, and staff. 

#5

Just hope they will find time,money and staffs to fix all of this or soon no one will left into the game. Its not by waiting over 9 month this will help OR to be better

#6

For me, I think the game is perfect right now. It’s challenging, but not to the point of frustration. I prefer it like this than it was last spring when you could beat the toughest defenses in the game on auto with 1:30 left. 

If I didn’t spend a lot of time every week forging I would probably have a different opinion though. It’s probably a tough game to play casually right now. 

#7

I can see the frustration for a player who is mid way up the ascension ladder - and if they are reasonably active they’ll have a good number of trophies for their level and almost certainly their base will be full of higher level opponents some by maybe +20 ascension levels - which is probably too much, especially as you’re always in a  state of flux, levelling up with weak gear. I’ve never been in a position to really forge great items as in my mind it’s going to be weaker in weeks. 

We’re now seeing a lot of max defences at the moment in TL, so they are challenging - hopefully when we reach max ascension level our heroes WILL get stronger through correct forging, then we can judge better. 

#8

at least if they can reduce the price needed for each forge will be appreciated. a refining items titan silver at 1 star cost 15k wisdom. 2 star cost 22k. 3 stars cost 30k. I don’t want to see the cost for gold star 60k for one item? If the price can be reduced by 20% or more can be more pleasant to do refining. Maybe I have wrong but for me its too much high. Specially when you have 2 items at same time to forge. Hopefully I don’t have more than 2. its crazy

If you need to be all maxed before use refinings to allow your heroes to be more stronger. Don’t make sense to wait until level 110 or 120. if we can do it before will help us a lots. i cannot park all my heroes on wisdom. I need gold and ambrosia. So its hard

What I need its not really well accessible before level 110-120. So for all player around level 80-110 its a pain. I don’t see how we can be more stronger with all Titan 5 stars items if refining is not accessible before max all stuffs. Other option?

#9

This might be more of a mental hangup than reality, though. Even if you’re forging something this week that won’t be as good as something you could forge next week, it will still be better than what you forged last week. 

Never Stop Forging

#10

Gold level forging is expensive, but those items also last for a really long time. In general, I prefer the cost/usefulness ratio of silver items, though. 

#11

Hope so i don’t want to spend my time to forge all of this and in 2 or 3 week later find better items and restart all over. Its always the case and a problem. So I hope refining will cause no problem in long terms

Just fight right now someone with 2 Nyx and kill me 3 times in 20 seconds. Cost me over 800 Ambrosia and I lost 11 trophy. I struggle to win now. I don’t know what I can do more to be stronger? Okeanos and Talos level 18. Bia Level 14. items all Titan 5 Stars maxed.

I use Phoenix,Griffin and Spearman with Okeanos,Talos and Bia. that worked realy spendid for 3 years. Maybe not anymore. What you use?

Edit : I have forget I have a ring 5 Stars titan with cooldown. So I refining my glove to add cooldown on it. Will see if that help

#12

It’s ok if you find better gear, it’s good in fact! Your old equipment can be used to forge new gear when you’re ready to upgrade. 

#13

You have to be able to adopt to the situation… the new levels above 131, and this is also the case above 100, aren’t so easy to come by. Here is some strategy, especially for new players leveling up fast, and for old players doing the same without planning their rest of their actions at the same time. You can level up fast, but there is a lot you have to do, to not feel the weak gear/hero…

Below level 90-100  

  1. max forging (using 4-5* dismantles) is not advised if you are going to be leveling up fast. If you are planning to sit around for a long time, then go to that specific point, and start forging anyway. No need to do it 5-10 levels before. And even if you plan to stay for a long time at a certain level… I would not advise huge max forging efforts… you have to know what you are doing (mostly second accounts do this - most player want to ascend with their primary account). After these levels, leveling up is a lot harder and time consuming, which means your forging items will last longer. But again, not as much as in even higher levels (over 115 or 125).
    2) So below 90, I would use 4* green/blue mostly, for rings… and maybe some gear of my war heroes (mainly the primary weapon and shield) - and I can explain why. For levels after 100, you could use 4* green/blue for the entire suits of these 3 to 5 heroes… and maybe a few selected items for your other heroes, that you use frequently.
  2. Do not refine. it’s not worth it at this point, except very very few exceptions.
  3. Do not upgrade uniques… expensive, you use up limited 5* titans (or make them), and you will have to do so, very soon again.

Your basic strategy: should be to just find high values, learn why they are high and if at close to max for your level, and just forge them up to lets say purple (over purple, there aren’t so many items, unless you play a lot - different discussion). Your advantage of this strategy… max forged items, get used a lot more (not longer - but in more battles), rings are used by more heroes than a single weapon. The rest of the items, if forged normally with 1*, are slightly improving your existing items, and without wasting *items* you are making dismantles in higher colors, for your rest forges. I make titan items for my GK, and most items of my war heroes. I always use GK as a war hero, up until now, it saves some of the items I need to make.

Over 100

Same strategy as above, but now you know much better how to find the good values, what you use more as rings, which gear is more important and why. You may start to build better gear using 4* purples maybe, and perhaps use 4* for more items or more heroes. Still no refinings in my opinion. If you reach at a point, were you are doing small worship upgrades, you can consider upgrading some important unique gear (Perseus shield, Hercules, CD uniques or your choice of hero you use)… if very old items. Leveling should start to decrease in frequency, you have to plan this out so you don’t waste resources, more of this at the conclusion below.

Over 125

Now, the leveling up is much slower, you use your items for a longer period of time for sure. If you are careful and smart, you can make items that can be used for 4-5 levels. Refinings can be effective, if done correctly… 

What you should be paying attention, is how you level up. Major buildings have high worship value, which levels you up, for no good reason sometimes, unless you plan it that way, which means a lot of raids, neglecting Odysseys (for wisdom/cash) upgrading gear/powers/units and a lot more. What takes forever, are all the towers/barricades, powers and then some units. Higher morale units can be quite “levelupish”. For example, there is no need for me, to level up your shrine of power, twice, before you even begin to max out your powers, or your important powers. A more modest approach, would be to level up once, max your frequently used powers (used by all heroes + your important heroes, perhaps Ajax/Artemis who can’t benefit from the other powers), then consider a second building upgrade, if it aligns with the rest of your gameplay. Same for units, same for even the guard (waves). It all depends, but leveling up fast, makes indeed your gear outdated, your battles harder, and your GK weaker…

So back to higher levels… you can always build your heroes, with 1* or 4* on green/blue, and improve slowly all your gear of all heroes. The cost of greens in nothing, blue not so bad. You will give them enough forge power, to make up for the level up. But you have to do it daily, constantly. Again you are making dismantles, and also replacing a titan 1* with a gold 1* gives you a titan to dismantle. Slowly you make that gold 1* into titan, until the next better item arrives… there is no point to make titans just for dismantle. REPLACE your titan 1* with new ones, the process is almost the same, and at the same time you improve your heroes… So pick good purples, or good golds, make some calculations, and see if its better than the existing ones, from older levels. I have replaced 5* titans of level 131, with level 137 gear… by using green/blue/purple 4* and my item was 1* titan more powerful than titan 5* (even with uber forge before). It’s smart, resourceful and more effective. You can do the same with gold replacing a titan, the gold on higher level can be better than a titan.

Also, there is a point that Dumpster made. Finding a high CD cape, can be really rare… Half my heroes do not have a decent green CD cape… So my old forged items were better, or slightly worst. So if you find a good 140 level green cape at 26-27k CD… it may even take you 3 levels to find a better cape, at 28k. There is no point for you to take a hit of 3 levels lower CD, without improving your cape… at least by using a few greens/blues. Especially if it will take you 2 months (that’s more than a full season of war) The idea of you will find better items, works at the max level, eventually… and if FG do not introduce more levels soon… which I think is good for the game (but not too long before new levels come). So pick your forgings… shields, weapons, capes, rings… cursed items… you can always forge and improve. The huge cost, is max forging… if you do this wisely, you do not have to worry about gear getting wasted, or gear being outdated.

Conclusion:

  1. If you are leveling up, don’t waste 4* dismantles, except greens… maybe blues. But do use them for good items
  2. If you want to make a titan, any titan so you can dismantle it… find a gold, that will get better at titan from your existing. Replace that on the suited gear of your hero, and dismantle the old 1*
  3. If you are done with 3-4 level ups, and you are now focusing on defence, some powers, some units… you can upgrade your uniques. Not every level… from 131 to 150, maybe 2-3 times? So plan it. As soon as you are done with major buildings, you will be stuck in 2-3 levels for a loooong time. Good time to do it. If you are close to level up, just wait a week, then upgrade your unique
  4. Making 4* purple/golds, even 5* titans is expensive… mostly from the item inventory point of view. You should not waste these items, if you are going to soon replace the forged item. This is what people should be afraid of. If I waste 20 titans, to make 4 x 5* titan items, to dismantle on to a CD cape of Perseus… is plain *****, unless I am at max level or close to that. The gain is so small, that it is vanished in 3 levels… it 2% more for each time you use 5* instead of 1* for CD… roughly 20k CD more lets say… you get a 5% increased green 1* base stat in 1 level… which can be almost 8k when you max it… so in 3 levels, you will find a better green item, which will yield 20k more CD, even if you DONT use 5* titans.

Im having so much fun with my leveling up… My heroes are all ok, except Artemis… I do 12 skull with the rest, some use more gems that others. My war heroes, can beat most bases without gems if I am not lazy to manual, and I don’t have the urgency to level up so fast… Yes, it is cool to be high level, but its catastrophic, for the reasons Philstar mentioned too… but not if you plan or play a lot. If you don’t play a lot, it’s imperative to level up slowly… I see guys with 1 or 1,5 years in the game, higher level than me with 3k trophies… they probably don’t know any better, but it’s a shame if they quit because of their own actions.

#14

The final bit of advice is if you get frustrated with constantly leveling up and feeling like you have to chase new gear to compete, don’t level up so fast! There’s very little advantage. 

#15

I think one of the big issues to chase max level is that once there, you can actually develop the heroes to play them the way they should be 100%. Actually refine uniques so they aren’t going to be ruined at lvl 140 or whatever. If the system was different for refining uniques in relation to their initial ‘boost’ period, then I don’t think there would be such a rush.  Sure I’ve got a lot of duplicates to experiment on and waste, but many players don’t have the same luxury. I’m always playing with 10 heroes that are half baked. I’m ok personally, I rarely (almost never) use gems to win and take the 95% over a costly 100%. I’d just like to see the full potential of say Odyseus/Artemis/Ajax/Prom etc as these heroes can’t do top lvl bases unless they have been properly refined and rely on some luck for items also.

#16

We’re always going to disagree on that strategy and I would never, ever advise a player who is already struggling at his levels to chase more levels for a mystery payoff. 

#17

I actually would, as as warriornator started the topic reminds us we always find higher lvl players on our islands - so unless you lvl up quick and become strong, you’ll always be in a weak state. So much easier to press ‘upgrade barricade’ than forge some good gear for a hero. To overcome the max level bases which are more common now you need max lvl powers and troops IMO. That requires a lot of levelling up anyway to achieve that. Sure for a few weeks battles will be hard, but better a few weeks of pain than  6 months.

#18

The people I see complain the most are the ones who upgraded all their resource structures and only increased level for no tangible gains. Upgrading defense and units is how to level up slowly. That’s how I advise everyone to plan their path. Typically, the handful of level 145/146 players at the top of the lists in war have worse defenses than the players 5 levels below them. Those are the ones who focus on upgrading defense.

Defense, units, powers first. Upgrade the big XP structures only when needed and there’s a reason to upgrade them. It helps with resource management, too. You don’t need to upgrade uniques as often, you don’t need to forge as often. You have more resources for refining projects and odyssey. High fame and great gear is better for quality of life issues than high level.

I actually prioritize odyssey and forging over upgrades. I’ll often have open builder slots for the first few days of odyssey so I don’t get pinched without enough wisdom. You can always gem upgrades if you have to, you never get back lost fame.

And one more thing – the two data points that match you to other players on your map are trophies and level, so if you’re seeing players much higher than you on your map, you can never really level up to catch them. You’ll just be matched with new higher level players. I would question if that gives you the advantage a struggling player is looking for, vs. upgrading slowly and wisely.

#19

There’s almost always a bigger fish in the pond, but the bigger you get the less of them there are…for example this morning for the first time in a while, did maybe 50 battles. Not one was a particularly hard base, as the main core powers and troops I use are max. The matching algorithm should make people lvl up faster, you rarely see a high lvl trophy on the islands once you hit a good amount of trophies.

If your active you should lvl up faster, as it will cost less in the long run, by a long way. The oddessy argument is a red herring also, as at the moment I do all 7s unless there’ s a bonus that is essential, and completion costs no gems per week, and my building never stop upgrading…but when I get to max lvl, I’ll be able to do max lvl oddesy if I feel the need, as my  heroes will be strong and not cost me any gems, and that won’t be too far in the future.

From what I saw most of the old max lvl guys did the big upgrades first, most are still higher lvl.

#20

Well, you’re advising someone who is under level 100 remember. It works differently. And Odyssey isn’t all about the buffs, it’s about the fame too. You’ll never, ever recapture the fame you’re missing out on.