Discussion for refining uniques

copied and slpit from https://forums.flaregames.com/t/please-fix-duplicate-unique-items/33733

hello Captain.

i know i asked about this several times (see e.g.
https://forums.flaregames.com/t/june-july-questions/32953/39
https://forums.flaregames.com/t/preview-version-5-1-0/33276/21
https://forums.flaregames.com/t/please-fix-duplicate-unique-items/33733/2
) and i know also the answer from the june/july section may be answered shortly…

i dont know if i missunderstand the given description of the refineing of uniques right (see https://forums.flaregames.com/t/version-4-2-0-may-the-forge-be-with-you/15898 ):


in particular the sencences “Dismantling a Silver- or Gold-Star item to Forge a Unique Item will add additional Perks from the item you dismantled, allowing you to have up to 4 stats on any Unique Item. Doing this will also raise it to the maximum power for your Ascension Level.”

my understanding from this has been the following (and i wonder if i am wrong):

  • the values of the perks on the unique can not be influenced and become their max. values
  • there is no need to forge or refine this unique first
  • BUT: and this cannot be seen before a try - DO THE TRANSFERRED PERKS DEPEND ON THE VALUES OF THE PERKS ON THE DISMANTELED ITEM?
  • and after the transfer, are the taken to the highest quality this unique can offer - or does a weak perk (not the main one) of the unique has no influence

so i made a test that i want to share and that i want to ask in addition:
i took a rather weak gold 5-star titan on my best claws


and got
image

my questions are now:
beside the orignial destruction perk, would the result have been different to the one above if i did this instead? (i ask for the values of the transferred perks)

and in addition what would be the result of the first “experiment” if i would have used a 5-star titan gold-cycle item with the same perks as above but with values of the perks to be transferred of lets assume their values doubled… would e.g. the new transferred perks on the unique also have double values, because the transfer is independet or the same process than like for a normal item and just bc it is a unique item these values are raised to their max. values AFTERWARDS?
(i have a bad feeling like this might be the case now, and once again i missunderstood the very short and maybe missleading description … so sad)

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this where replies from the original place…

@CaptainMorgan sorry for moving the question and tagging you - here are some more questions that arose for me after refing my 1st gold unique and what i find confusing or need some clarity:

if i would do this:


the values get diluted but the perks stay - which is ok since the dismatled item is not powerful compared to the original one.
Q: what if i would do so a forge-step several times ? will these values increase in the same level or after several gained player levels?

furthermore the quality or the type of the dismatled item would not play a role…
image

if i would do this… the shield perk will stay, but the AS perk gets a “?”… why this?
can i replace a single perk by this, but only due to gambling?

and what would happen here… will the added perks be replaced? (and since this item is not made for this uniques it would be gambling?)…
BUT: is it possible to replace added perks by others?
image

i tried to refine a unique with a refined unique - that was not possible for me (i checked if it is not in any layout or locked - i could not select the refined unique). BUT - is it maybe possible to do “loop refines” on uniques in a different way (e.g. last screenshot above, values of 2nd refine much higher than 1st time same player level)?

@Archimides i am sorry for this confusing split of the topic. so if i get you right: refining of uniques is kind of gambling right now and the values are unpredictable?

Nice post, waiting for some info

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@NaN as far as I understand, you do only ONE refine on that unique per level and in order to get higher values of those perks, you should dismantle the same gold item to have an increase of values on the next level.
It would be good to have another button to forge the unique, using a simple 5* bronze item to have those values increased… instead of making another gold item to do so. It is a way too costly.

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If you add 2 perks to a unique can’t you use a bronze 5 star after you level up to increase the perks’ values?

No, u need the same item (with the same perks) you dismantled in order to increase those values, otherwise they go down.

It’s all very complicated. It’s based on invisible item levels and the invisible gains that items get to the invisible item levels when they’re forged or refined. It’s like trying to unravel a tangled string of Christmas lights or doing a sudoku with a blindfold on.

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No problem.

The only way to really be able to tell is to check your unique item capabilities or level. The only way to do that, is if you have 2-3 and test forge them with a 5* titan. If you don’t have any others, you have to check other uniques on people with the same level as you.

If you see the perk on Perseus shield (DR) it can be for example, anywhere between 50 to 70k. Higher end is a good level of the unique, lower end is not so good. This is constant on any level for that specific unique.

Its not 100% confirmed, but the values of added perks, will be depended on how that unique perk value is. I get the feeling that there is less random on those perk (smaller span of values) but they are also considerably lower than what you see in items, which makes the span also smaller in raw values (though the % should be the same anywhere).

I had several results on level 131 but not enough for a solid conclusion

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That would not max them, in fact if you do that in the next 4-5 levels, it might lower the perks and only raise the main power (eg health or leadership cape).

There is a specific formula for using bronze/silver/gold at any time on uniques and it just depends on your level and the unique “level”

I’ll use an example of something I’m about to do
I have a silver sword for Perseus I’m forging in which I added frostbite. I want to put that frostbite into his unique boots. After I add the frostbite I’m planning to add DR with another silver 5star titan in which I added reflection. 3 questions:
Can I do that with those 2 5star silver items?
When I add the 4th perk, will it increase the items’ values to match the max for my level, or will it mess it up completely?
What happens if I forge the item with a bronze 5 star 10 levels after I add the 4th perk?

You’re not guaranteed to add frostbite to the boots from a silver weapon with frostbite and a 3rd perk unless it was a frostbite weapon you added move speed to. Likewise, the DR item would have to be armor/boots/shield with DR and move speed or a cape/sword/ gloves with DR and frostbite. Or armor/ shield with DR/frostbite.

What? No that’s wrong. If I add a perk to a normal item and dismantle it to refine a unique it will receive that perk. I’ve done that 3 times already

You confused me a bit with the second part, but I guarantee you, Dumspter knows what he is talking about.

Uniques or non uniques, if you take a silver item, the only way to guarantee a transfer is if you rule out the current perk (speed which are on boots). Otherwise its random.

You can now use a test forge, and you can see which perk, will get transferred. Thats a big help. I’ll try to see your other questions and reply.

Ok got the other questions.

If you forge twice your unique with silver items, it wont, repeat will NOT reach its full potential, as a 4 perk item. You can only do that on current level with gold item

Also, you will transfer in the first phase frostbite or AS (example if thats on your sword) and then DR or whats the other perk on that silver. Beyond bronze phase, you cant transfer what ever you want… and the best way to realize that is to use a ring ON something else.

Now if you use a bronze after 10 levels… I am going to assume we just used a gold item (instead of 2 silvers - just because I am more familiar with those numbers).
You will get a good increase on the health of the boots, the other 3 perks, are most probably going to be risen a small fraction, but for that level it wont be much of values… its only going to happen because 10 levels are over 60% better values overall… and that unique got outdated.

So the unique will be trash if I refine it and keep leveling up? I’m only level 106 and was planning to refine these boots. Is that any way I can do this and when I reach 130-140 keep it a good item?

I don’t get why they make the forge system so dumb. Items get outdated so fast I don’t even think it’s worth trying to do anything before lv 120… I’ll just make my titan 1 star items and the occasional 5 star one and keep using my gold and books to lv up. What a waste of time

The forge system is great. Uniques are the problem. They’re not so good.

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did you take screenshots to share showing the “?” and the results. I have also heard of it that for uniques the “?” do not say anything. it would be a great help if there is something weird as it should be the way dumpster and Archimides said.