Fame effect combo

Idea: i suggest to use a non linear relationship (logarithmic one?) between fame bonuses and fame value.

Explanation:
Today the 5 odysee masteries are linearly correlated with fame value.
So new players complain about the fact they have no chance to get as strong as older player. This is true but might be acceptable if it was not even worse then people think:
-new player can t do 12+3 skull odysee while old players are only doing it, so fame difference will become even higher
-the worst part is that as bonus are multiplicative, even for same fame increase over time, the old players will get much higher effect:

let s consider 2 players: new one with 14 000 fame (my personnal situation after 14 months of very active play), and one old player with 42 000 fame (top players, exactly 3 times more then me)
first one will get about 1.5% loh and +9% Health point bonus (and use those masteries twice each)
second one will get about 4.5% loh and 27% health point bonus (and use those masteries twice each)

First bad kiss cool effet:
Both player use a GK with 100 000 health (i don t take into account any items, we can assume both players have same)
first one have 100 000*(1+0.09x2)=118 000health and 118000x1.5/100x2= 3540 loh
second one have 100 000*(1+0.27x2)=154 000health and 118000x4.5/100x2= 13860 loh
So second one have 4 times more loh then first one despite only 3 times more fame, because of multiplicative effects

Second bad kiss cool effect:
Now let s assume that in one year, they both win 14 000 more fame. Both of them will get 9% more hp and 1.5% more loh. New numbers are now:
first one have 100 000*(1+0.18x2)=136 000health and 136000x3/100x2= 8160 loh
second one have 100 000*(1+0.36x2)=172 000health and 172000x6/100x2= 20640 loh
The loh difference is even higher now: 20640-8160=12480 more loh for second player vs 10320 more loh one year ago!

Third bad kiss cool effect:
If a 3rd player attack their GK , and deal for example 30000 damage per hit, the first one will get 30000-3540 damage per hit while the second one will take 30000-13860 damage per hit… so one will get down in few seconds and the other will take much longer (this is the same reason why 90% armor or 89% armor is huge difference…). And this time difference will increase even more for same amount of fame gained by the 2 players (after one year, first one will go from 5 sec to get down GK to 6 sec, while other one will go from 30 sec to 40 sec for example).
Such “issue” is not only due to multiplicative effect of odysee masteries.

For all those reasons, i suggest to use a non linear relationship (logarithmic one?) between fame bonuses and fame value.
Old players will still get more benefits from higher and higher fame, but the difference will not increase so drastically over time between new and old players.

NB: The example is true for loh/health, but also for others masteries combo (attack speed + damage for example)

NB: despite this, as i already said, i still consider that playing with low fame in TL is possible because good forging as more effect then fame, but at equal forging, fame effect behavior is very bad/tilting.

for the 5 masteries:
atm it will be more and more expensive to get high values (like good green items) the higher you get and in addition it is also not needed to do every step.

I see you point. You made some good and valid arguments. However:

  • You need to pay attention to your text when you use the “*” character for multiplication. It messes up with the italic text.
  • You didn’t take into account the health bonus of the GK, most are Perseus or Ajax with +60% health bonus. It doesn’t change drastically the numbers, but if we want to do it the right way …
  • And most important thing of all, you didn’t take into account the LoH cap for ascension level. You easily hit that cap at lv140+ and 24K+ fames. The higher the ascension you are, the less fames needed to hit that cap. And this, my friend, changes everything!
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-thx marinien, did not noticed for the “*” character (i do it every time on that forum :s). I edited formulas

-bonus health of GK is irrelevant imo: if both players use perseus, we don t care if they have 62500 base hp with 60% bonus or 100 000 hp as everything is multiplicative.
I am only considering fame effect differences in calculations.

-Regarding the loh cap: i agree (but don t know the formula for loh cap), but that is why i said that issue is also true for AS+damage combo (and also cdr/potency combo but it would be a bad combo for a 42k fame player most likely with cdr loop forged ring ^^).
And no matter what, if you reach the loh cap very easily with 24k+ fame, then you can use fame for others bonuses, and do not need to use loh perks on GK :slight_smile: (you wanna see a screenshoot of my GK with loh on trinket/weapon/arm ^^ ?)

Mathematically speaking, considering the bonuses alone, you are right.
The problem is that you used fictive numbers. If you use reasonable numbers, taking ascension level, heath that you can have at that level, and the cap of LoH into account. The big picture isn’t the same.

And you can’t just use 1 LoH slot in Masteries and still hit the cap of LoH. Not that simple. You need like 45K fames with a relatively good build to achieve that. So it’s not as linear as you think. I already hit the LoH cap, yet I will still play the next 2 years with both LoH slots in masteries. What do you think about that?

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Then you can use only 1 loh slot and 2 health slot and get multiplicatives bonuses uncapped :wink:
Or you can use not a single health/loh slots but only AS/damage slots and do same.

You are using both loh/health slots because it is even more powerfull in your situation, but the fact is fame effect is increasing overtime is not a good thing imo.
(that is similar for units health and damage on units btw… the bonuses are somehow multiplicatives… that is why OR warned us when they suggested a boost of tower in path: increasing health of towers will somehow increase their damage because they last longer; for units it is the same).

Absolutely true! And I think that players who stick their @$$ out weeks over weeks for the last 4 years absolutely deserve it! Finally you can get rid of a LoH slot, after so much time, and most likely with $$$. All I can say is respect to these guys!

Yeah, you understand well the power of health, which also gives that multiplier effect to LoH and why, like I said, the higher ascension you are the less fames you need to reach LoH cap.

Health is the most powerful perk for defense, just like damage is the most powerful perk for offense. Welcome to OR!

The problem is that offense is totally overpowering defense now, so I don’t see any problem to let the masteries and Odyssey enhancements being favoured towards defense as of now. Think about the game balance, you want to make it even easier?

Out of the new players (about a little bit more than 1 year in activity), you really stands out. Don’t let that fame thing be a barrier to your progress in the game. Let me tell you this: the best GK in the game, by miles ahead of any other, is not a lv150 and only has about 30K fames. And you know what’s worse? It’s just his “temporary” project, not the true one!

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The fame argument is valid for mastery such as health, there’s quite a big difference between a 14k fame guy and 40k fame guy, mastery quality being ‘equal’
LoH only matters in attack, as has been stated is easily reached with low mastery values.

The fundamental problem right now is that FB which a while ago only did 50% extra damage, now does 200% extra damage. This elemental damage that many base obstacles have weakness to is crushing defences with ease, when used by good damage heroes such as Herc/Prom/Ajax/Athena etc.

FB needs a nert by at least 50% of that additional damage. Then bases might last little longer and Gk’s might last bit longer than 30s.

In a few seasons everyone will be getting 100% vs everyone in TL, how can even a 2 skull island be won! Even the best alliances can’t take a 3 skull from an average alliance. GoW couldnt beat an average alliance 2 skull last war for example as the game just became a press button to win game. FB can be max’d pretty much with just one added superforge perk!! haha.

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Fully agree with that. Maybe we can try to lower FB’s extra ice damage to 150%, then 100% if it’s still too overpowered?

ToH is a whole new team now. They are nowhere near “average”. But I do get your point!

The current best GK lasts way longer than 30s. @HOLYDIVINE can see the clock clicking in red! The GK race isn’t over, yet, at least for those who go to battles without any equipped invocation!

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I’ve asked Eestil who he finds hard, I’d be surprised if it’s actually anyone! At least in the last 5 months or so since he now stays at his current lvl without lvl up.

I personally only equip invocs to heroes as it annoys me when the hero button flashes in the temple when you don’t have all slots equipped, gets really annoying!! Have used less than 10 invocs in the past 5 war seasons. Some of those 'cos I attacked with my GK Percy…

Maybe we could get a VP bonus for having none equipped!!! But remove the flashing symbol first as that’s annoying.

There’s also a big difference in ability between GoW/CCCP/Spartha and for example the new ToH. But the failure to win a 2 skull shows exactly what I mean! They have about 100k vps more than us for the season while the top 3 have anything from 500k to 1M more vps, sure islands have different vps but you can see the difference already between the top3 and the rest.
1v1 while being a fairer war has become even more static than ever.

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Well, that GK is of the General of SPATHA, and he just made it about 3 weeks ago.

If you bring your best Athena, then there’s no challenge, of course. Nothing is hard.

But if you take your Ariadne or Cadmus, then that GK is hard. I can’t full AP him (except with Athena). And I might fail even with manual play. Eeestil beat that GK with Ariadne, but it’s not guaranteed that he will make it next time, or the time after that. The clock was clicking red, and you know what it means :wink:.

Yeah I see now, I did rate Bizantius GK as very good anyway (top 5 for me) at killing non-shield heroes, but the moment you have a half decent lvl of DR it works against them and they die quickly. All non-shield heroes need prob 40% DR to be good against the best Gk’s. Last time I faced him was a few weeks ago (maybe he’s replaced all 8 items since then but I doubt it), and by chance it was my Percy with high DR. He was home in time for tea.#

As for Caddy, he’s not a war hero of mine, and I didn’t ever get around to finishing him off, reason being is that his damage multiplier isn’t high enough and has to be heavily refined or depend on troops that die quickly to a high damage GK with petrify/FB. Although I agree better to have high damage, as I think Caddy/Aridane can be stopped by great Gk’s, but as you know solo heroes can’t be stopped ever…due to FB mad high % added damage.

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That we agree! That’s why I mentioned especially Ari and Cadmus in this case. Solo heroes can’t be stopped, but they are PITA, which is why for the last few wars I left Heracles and Ajax home and brought Ari and Cadmus. When you don’t have time, but need to fill the duty … :smiley:

not if someone spends 12 gems for those few GKs. why doesnt you bother that, its much easier to do (and more reliable during wars)? even without FB or DR or wearing a single refined item.

and you guys (and others too) do have great GKs. and players (even with solo heroes) still need to know what to do and how to build to take them down (or use gems).

It does kinda bother me that Tartarus is so cheap and yet soooo powerful…:wink:

And that you can die more times than Elvis and still win the battle.

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:scream: what, elvis died?

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Strong GK don’t exist anymore sad due to so many nerfs to them in 2019.
Earlier I used to use Tartarus invocation(Against strong GK) only with Cadmus, Arainde and Achilles (as these three heroes relies heavily upon troops to beat GK) when area damage bug was present but haven’t used a single invocation in past four months.

I hope developers buff Defense and Gatekeeper.

Yeah it is an absolute cheap invocation and developers should raise its cost. After all it is always guaranteed to kill any GK in just one hit :scream::unamused:

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its used the way it is in the past. just bc some dont need it, now it needs a nerf?

Does it matter if you beat GK in 30 seconds or 3 seconds? Players will always get same rewards for winining :sweat_smile: four chests at the end of the battle.

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