GK Changes - Proposed Plans

Hi all,

I am creating this thread to give you advanced warning of the changes we will make when we fix the DR/AD bug. Feedback is welcome and constructive criticism is also welcome. Remember, the best way to stop us making a specific change is not to get angry about it, but to convince us that we shouldn’t, with a good argument.

As mentioned in the other thread, we will take baby steps with these changes, but will revisit the situation after you have had time to let the changes sink in. This does not mean one evening. If you have very strong concerns, please voice them now (in a civil way).

The current plan is:

  • We will make no changes to Tower or Barricade health or attack, although this was our initial focus.
  • We will increase the strength of Health and Damage Perks on items you find (note: only the Perks will be stronger, not the base stats).
    • Health by 40%
    • Damage by 17%
  • We will reduce Minotaur Ice Weakness from 150% to 100%.
  • Finally, and importantly, we will cap the maximum Demolition proc chance at 30%.

If you are unsure what I mean by perks and base stats:

  • Base stats are the first stat in all items other than rings/accessories/trinkets.
  • Perks are all stats other than the first one on items, and all stats on rings/accessories/trinkets.

Important additional notes:

  • AR and DR will both still work on GKs, and are both still strong.
  • We will also be fixing an issue which meant that when the GK attacked it would choose the stronger of the two between the normal attack damage and the area damage. Now it will always deal both damages, meaning the normal attacks of a GK will inherently get a buff from these changes.
3 Likes

These % would be on hero/gk stats or the item itself?

The item Perk itself will be stronger when found.

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So old items will be unchanged, right? How about when forged ? Will old items be normalized?

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Have you found a way to reduce the high damage reflected by Gks?
You said that area damage and reflection still will work.
So does that means area damage bug will not be sorted out in version 5.2 ?

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I cant seem to quote you, when I am mobile Captain.

In any case, are you saying that max demo on hero will be reduced from 75% to 30% ???

I find this completely wrong for the following reasons.

  1. its too much of a change, you are going to ruin plans
  2. do you have data as to how many used more than 30% ? I doubt a lot of players used this, and I also think that it is not so effective in large quantities, so why change it? This is more of understanding the reason you chose it (besides the fact that less demo will make raids “slower” - I am fascinated to know how many players actually used more than 40-50%)
  3. We have at least 2 unique items that give higher than 30% on hero on hero, if I am not mistaken, they can possibly give as high as 35-40% if the unique level is good - what happens then? I also might combine that with a simple weapon, for close to 50% which is a good strategy for those heroes.

My suggestion is to lower it by a smaller portion… start with 60 or 50%. Especially number 1 & 3 makes it unfair to have build around that perk. Put it in the first step as suggested.

Can we please know more info about the changes. Like the certainty of applying them or not? I like it that you listen to us and change some times, but if I am planning and saving demo items for all my heroes, and now you are limiting this to 30%, then all my planning is wasted and has been also taken slots of items in my inventory… We need to adjust. I also think making less drastic changes, is better for the players.

Having said that, please increase tower/barricade health instead (for lack of other options). It doesnt affect the player plan or playstyle at all… even though It had its disadvantages, in this case and light of new data, its certainly better than changing demo.

At the same time increasing those two perks, can also fall into that category, although I dont want to argue that right now. I feel the GK un-nerf would be the way to go. As it will be the second time we reduce their effect, and its actually what will be missed from fight. Not taking longer to reach him, who cares about that?

3 Likes

Low Demo Cap may affect only heroes like Helen that has low Damage, other heroes with much better Damage + good AS, can still do good with 30 % but maybe our Cyclops has done tests with it :slight_smile:

I checked my heroes earlier and I don’t have any with more than 20%, even Hercules.

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I agree with the points Archimedes says entirely, and Dumpster …must be a strange day…

Above 20% there’s not really that great a benefit from having huge demo, the first proc is the one that does the massive damage, not the 3rd, 4th, or 5th etc. I maybe have Jason and Helen with over 30% due to Helen’s poor damage and troublesome power, and Jason’s unique. I do have a demo claw for Herc that gives 36% demo, although I don’t use it anymore as normal items are better. Doesn’t alter the way demo is normally used. Bases will still be easy. Can complete almost any in the game with 90s remaining for 100% as can many guys at the top. Need speed VP bonus for war… etc etc etc

I guess if the AD/DR bug is sorted that is something, but other than that I don’t see major chances with this version. Minotaur weakness reduction was needed, that will helps lower lvls complete bases at least for 90%.

Yup. Time to double up barricades

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hi @CaptainMorgan,
i wanted to ask why will there be a 30% cap on demolition and what’s the reason or idea behind it,
plus why not put such caps on keepers like 30 DR or else?

on this term i agree with Archi, that’s a big change, it effects many weaker heroes rendering them useless actually, it will only lead to using specific heroes for wars only and limits the choice and makings of heroes
some heroes need it more some need it less or don’t need it at all, and like Phil mentioned, after 2nd hit Demo is useless itself and doesn’t have a role,
overall that is a big change for most weaker heroes, war hero choices are already limited regarding the keepers strength

i think if we concentrate more on AD DR issue is better since that renders heroes without physical resistance totally useless, heroes without shield already have 1 item less to refine , and with that bug you have to dedicate another slot also for them to physical,
so that’s a big hit on them.

2 Likes

I have to say I agree that the 30% cap on demo seems like overkill. As has been pointed out, a single demo unique can easily bring you over the cap.

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I don’t disagree with your premise, but 30% also seems like a pretty optimal amount for demo, all thinks considered. More than that seems to be a waste to me. Do you use a lot more than 30% on some of your heroes.

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The 30% demo is probably as the devs want oddessy to be harder, so it will be by reducing demo I’d say.

To me it’s of secondary importance whether it’s effective to have much over 30% demo on a hero. If anything, if it’s NOT particularly useful, that seems to me like more of a reason to NOT set the cap so very low. What’s the point? And again, as stated, even a single demo unique brings you over the cap. It doesn’t seem very sensible. 50% would be more appropriate.

1st i would like to know what’s the idea behind reducing it,
but yeah on weaker herors I use multiple demo items ““specifically”” to be able to beat average maps and play odyssey too,

generally, if we limit choices on makings we can still all select the 3 or 4 popular war heroes like clone and play wars and not much problem except losing diversity of tasting and exploring different heroes, but also we have Adventures too that it’s not our choice, there will be given a hero and i need to make any sorta forgotten hero(forgotten by devs through updates not myself) ready to be able to put some fight, and unlike other games we don’t shop rare/special items through packs its totally random might happen on a hero and might not, no options there, we get them randomly, so it’s not my fault if i get multiple demo items for helen and no frostbite etc or totally not getting frostbite :sweat_smile: for some reason.

it’s a play field of choices and makings and also the items that we have received too, different play styles different heroes, etc, for example if i make Hercules with high damag and frostbite I don’t see the use of demo myself, but on helen Ariadne Odysseus the heroes that had beem forgotten(not by me) i would like to have wider choices to make them based on my playing style instead of putting them away and sticking to 3 heores only,

overall i see this change limits using all heroes and points us to certain ones, more specifically on war and high lvl adventures,

what do use more than demo D? frostbite?

2 Likes

But do you get more than 30% demo? I have 2 sources of demo on a couple of heroes and it’s like 18-20%, which is plenty. 30% is probably perfect, maybe 35%. I’d rather use my equipment slots on something else at that point.

The question isn’t “what do I use more than demo”, it’s what do I use more than >30% demo. For a non-Herc/Jason hero that’s devoting a LOT of item slots to just demo, which does 0 against the GK. Even for herc and jason, with no shield, you’re telling me that you want to use more than 1 item slot on demolition? I think you can make a better choice than that.

A little bit of demo is nice, but if you’re putting more than 30% (I might argue more than 20%) on your hero, you’re probably not helping yourself to kill GKs and you could be getting very frustrated (like some of your teammates, who have complained about GK difficulty recently). So yeah, FB is a fine choice, or AS, or Stun, or honestly anything except for demo. Does that make sense?

TL;DR: >30% demo gives major diminishing returns, if this move is a stealth Hercules nerf it’s long overdue.

The purpose of this update is to nerf GKs, right? Maybe the devs realize that people build their heroes really crazy-like, with demo on every available slot, and that’s why they are having trouble killing GKs. Makes a little sense, at least.

That sounds like a stretch, to put it mildly. Frankly, this change just doesn’t seem to make any sense. I could see 50%, if you really wanted to change the cap for whatever reason, but 30%? There’s no purpose to it.

Again, and I can’t stress this enough: that would make the cap less than what you get from a single unique. It’s just silly.

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Maybe it’s them hinting, again, that uniques are bad?

I don’t think it’s a bad change, though. Maybe they recognize that demo makes the main base too easy, and that lots of players would rush through the base and not fight the gk. So now GK’s are going to be pushovers, maybe, and that one tactic is getting nerfed. Although, again, 20% demo feels like plenty to me so maybe they just need to get rid of it all together?