Guardian cooldowns and balance

I mainly wanted to discuss the Sultan Guardian’s cooldown here.

The Donkey is a great starting place, sitting at a 10s cooldown. The Trusty’s cooldown is twice as long, at 20s, but even that is fine, as it is a more specific Guardian meant for tackling Skull Towers and meant to be used against enemies weak to Ice damage.

And here we arrive at the Sultan Guardian, who has an astonishingly long cooldown of 34s. Its Movement Speed is also the slowest of the 3, sitting at a mere 4. As a counter-point to those 2 downsides, it has considerably more HP than the other two, about ~25% more. In reality, however, this makes no difference really, because Guardians are meant to be used for their active Abilities rather than the surplus of HP they provide, which is only the 2nd most important thing about them.

If you ask the players, I wouldn’t be surprised if the vast majority of them would tell you that using Sultan feels just sluggish and not fun, precisely because of how seldomly you can summon him, which is like 3 times at most compared to the 4-5 uses of the other 2 Guardians, and because it is the slowest-moving Guardian of the three.

That said, I believe the Sultan guardian should have those stats adjusted; it’s cooldown should be 30s at most, and preferrably 25s (which is also what the longest Guardian Summon cooldown should be, in order for them to remain competitive with all other Guardians), should have its Movement Speed raised to either 5 (as much as Trusty has) or 4.5. In exchange for those changes, its HP should be lowered instead, down to 45k at level 2 (it normally has 50,639 HP). I figure you were afraid of how effective Sultan would be when summoned and used in corners filled with towers, due to its AoE Bomb ability, but you have to keep the range of said ability in mind, which is also very short, sitting at a mere 3.30, which is about the same range as a forged the Sonic Blast spell, which already is the shortest range Spell in the game along Hammerstike. Given Sultan’s extremely long cooldown, the range on its Bomb ability should also be increased, to about an even 4, so that it can actually become an effectice choice for mass-placed Towers in corners/turns, which should be Sultan’s niche of effectiveness.


Sultan is also the only of the 3 basic Guardians to not have an Aura ability. Donkey has a Battlecry Aura, Trusty has an Ice Damage Aura, and Sultan, being the worst of them all (personal opinion based on its Initial Cooldown and subpar of its Active Ability), has no Aura to speak of. Given how it is meant to be the most effective against Towers and Obstacles, it would make sense to give it a Blunt Damage Aura  (the same thing an Omega Ring has, that is the Sonic Blast Aura) to also be effective against Spikes, because right now none of the 3 basic Guardians is effective against them. And Sultan badly needs it, given the atrocious 34s initial summon cooldown.


And the last thing that seems a very odd choice to me, is that Guardians’ Movement Speed stat is completely different from the Unit Movement Speed stat. The fastest Unit in the game, which is the Wolf, has a Movement Speed of 4, and the second fastets unit, the Knight, has a 3.0+ Movement Speed, both of which move faster than the fastest of the 3 basic Guardians, which is the Donkey, who has a Movement Speed of 6. Hope the developers can see how this doesn’t make sense and will change the Guardian’s Movement Speed stat to be in line with the Units Movement Speed stat, as there is zero reason for those two types of units to have an incohesive Movement Speed stat, where the same exact numbers result in completely different speeds of said units. Take also into consideration that most players already know most of the units’ Movement Speeds by heart, so seeing Guardians use different values that do not match those of the units, it just makes our brains spin in incomprehension and confusion, because really, who even thought of separating the Movement Speed stat into an additional, unnecessary category? Please keep those cohesive and constant, in accordance with the Movement Speed values of regular units we’ve already grown accustomed to over the years of playing the game.

Both Donkey and Trusty seem fairly balanced, but Sultan stands as the odd Guardian out, and could really use the improvements I’ve mentioned.

In addition to that, please also check my other report that concerns Guardians, which is here: 

Thanks for reading.

 

Guardians need to be balanced. A little too much OP. Pals + Guardians its too much for this game. So if you are lucky to have Kaiser at level 10 and a Guardians at level 3+ then enjoy the destructions. Flare must check this and fix this ASAP.

They only upside to using Sultan is for gate towers. Giving him a Sonic blast aura will defeat the purpose as it’ll then take down the gate too.

 

Maybe a way to balance Sultan is to give it a Max gate range with damage that can kill any tower, but with cooldown that can only be used once in a raid. This way, a player can stand at the center of the gate area and use Sultan to destroy all gate towers. This would mean, player using sultan is essentially doing its war raid without the benefit of a guardian that helps mid path, but one that rewards the player by helping him or her at the gate instead.

 

Sultan’s Active ability doesn’t do damage to the final gate either. I think Trusty’s Blizzard does damage it, but for how much damage Sultan’s Bombs do to Towers, they seem to do 1-5% of that to the Gate, or none at all.

There’s no reason Guardian’s Actives shouldn’t damage the gate. If anyone (or anything) can damage something, it should be able to damage everything, and not have certain entities exempt from said damage for some arbitrary, let alone nowhere explained or mentioned reasons.

So, please fix the Hero Scream not affecting Guardians and their Active abilities to do damage to Castle Gates.

Actually there is a very good reason and it’s pointed out in Flare’s Sultan breakdown:

 

Well, whaddya know, it is actually outlined that it is weak against the Castle Gate. Well, I still find it weird, since the Castle Gate has no particular weaknesses (e.g. a Blunt damage type weakness), so making Sultan not do damage to it but allow Trusty to damage it makes no sense.

During wars, the biggest challenge is to get 100% (3 crowns).

Sultan, being strong against towers but weak against the gate, makes him a very valuable asset when you’re trying to get 100% instead of 98-99%. All you have to do is save his special for the last gate tower. Sultan will get you that 100%.

How important is it to get 100%? Well, it depends on the alliance. It might be meaningless in most wars for  the vast majority of alliances, but it is absolutely crucial in highly contested wars.

Not gonna say this isn’t true, although from my experience, the number of times I’ve failed to completely clear a fully-towered castle gate (3 towers on each side, 6 total) were so very few I could count them the fingers of a single hand. Then again, I’m not within the 130s range yet.

Looking at it from a different angle, Sultan Active ability’s range is so small (3.30), that most of the time he will be hitting 2 towers, 3 being a rare example if there’s an additional one placed diagonally in the corner. And even if that happens to be the situation near a Castle’s Gate, then you will most definitely be using Sultan to destroy those 3 towers clumped togher, rather than aiming to use his ability on the Castle Gate itself. And so, even in the high-end Wars Sultan has to be used for his intended purpose (clumps of towers in corners and also near the Castle Gate), but other than that - during regular raids, event battles and ninjas - everyone could use those few seconds of saved time if his ability actually did damage to the Castle Gate.

The conclusion I’m arriving it as this: Sultan’s active should be able to damage Castle Gate, because in those extreme and rare situations where you’ll be using him as intended (again, only against clumps of towers), it will literally not matter if he could damage the Castle Gate, because you will be too far away from said Gate to actually damage if, if you’re focusing on the towers nearby, that is.

To summarize, since it doesn’t really matter either way (not by any big margin) if Sultan’s ability does damage the Castle Gate or not, just go ahead and make it do damage to the Castle Gate.

It does matter if Sultan hits the gate. During (highly contested) wars you don’t want Sultan to hit the gate… actually you don’t even want your troops to hit the gate. You’re just desperately trying your best to take down all gate towers before the gate falls. :wink:

I think this is where Sultan will shine.

 

I agree with you that other guardians can shave off some seconds in the early-mid portions of the raid, but you can get back those seconds with a time warp scroll (which is already a must  for the vast majority of players in top alliances during hard wars).

We purposely do not want Sultan to damage the gate, as Arrebimba stated correctly :slight_smile:

Hi AzureKnight,

Thanks for the feedback and the time you took to make your observations and to write this comment.

We purposely designed the Guardians with different tasks, downsides, and benefits in mind, including their cooldowns and movement speeds.

Sultan has another strong feature which you have not mentioned namely his AOE attack feature in the normal attack (not only in combination with the Bomb ring). Therefore, we think he is already pretty strong and currently does not need another feature to make him stronger.

We will consider looking at his cooldown again though (also when checking internal usage data) but we do not see a strong reason currently to make Sultan more powerful. But of course, more feedback from the community is always welcome!

Thanks again.

The guardians just overpowered the offense again. Like it was 4 months ago. Anyone that spent years an their defense it doesn’t matter once again… might as well have just left it like it was 4  months ago…Easy to beat any top players once again … all those Pearl’s and upgrade times wasted.

To be completely honest, I did not mention this as I was not even looking into said possibility.

The main issue being that the Guardians’ ‘description’ page, the one which lists all of their stats, does not mention that this Guardian has an actual AoE Auto (normal) attack, and during regular raiding, well, I just didn’t think if paying attention to that, as no unit that I’m aware of is able to reach and hit 2-3 towers with their basic Autoattack, except perhaps the Gargoyles’ explosion AoE (which isn’t a normal attack) or the Mortar unit.

I think this example (our conversation) is as clear as it gets that the game still requires more basic information being put up front and visible to the players. Now that I do know it has an AoE autoattack, then yes, obviously my perception on this Guardian changes into a more positive one.

Thanks Madlen.