Is loser bonus variable during a war?

Is the loser bonus fixed for a war, and is it the % value shown when starting the war? Or does it dynamically change as your or the other alliance wins/looses?

Currently the bonus shown in the war map changes, even for the stats of a war already in progress. Is this change really affecting the running war, or is it a display glitch?

@GalaMorgane

I think there is something strange and totally wrong with the way loser bonus works now. We lost 2 wars today, since we want to become third place. To make things more specific, we lost while scoring 138k skulls in one war season and 141k skulls in second war. To be precise, first two days we won 4 wars, now we lost 2. We have 46 fiefdoms and lost to a team having 50 fiefdoms plus the other 42. Both teams have a higher alliance. Still we did beat both teams, on day one the team with currently 42 fiefdoms and we won two times against the team having 50 fiefdoms. 

So going further on that, we should get 0.3 times our skulls as loser bonus for each war.  I don’t see how flare comes up with the displayed 123k loser bonus.

Can flare explain in detail with examples how this new loser works? I am sorry, but this strange way of skulls that count as loser bonus is very hard to understand. I don’t detect any logic in this algorithm, even after reading how it should work. There is no way I even come close to 123k outcome a loser bonus.

I think it would be more fair to give only a bonus against a team that you lost against. Why punish a team to fight against a team with an extreme high loser bonus, just because they lost heavily against another team? That makes no sense at all. And that’s what we are up to now, we have 12.4% loser bonus, the other team 16.4%, just because they lost three times against one team, which they even attacked twice. That they have a high loser bonus against that other team, fine. But it’s everything but fine that they have a much higher loser bonus against us. 

 

It should be a winner bonus! I hate the stupid way we treat losers nowadays. Losers are Losers, you shouldn’t be rewarded for being worse than someone else. The winners should get the bonuses and not the losers, simple as that

The loser bonus is a way to allow weaker alliances to beat stronger alliances.

This is Flares intention and it seems like a good idea.

But there’s one problem in the system that’s screwing everything up: there is still a BIG incentive for alliances to drop fiefdoms!

 

Dropping fiefdoms should be as rewarding as, say, purposedly not getting the defensive ninjas during the ninja event. All we need is for Flare to change things up.

if you play mariokart or similar, the back players always get better boosts to give them a chance to catch up, make the race more ‘fun’ by ‘evening’ out the chances of players to win. Many games do this and thats what the loser bonus is for. Its not a bad idea, but implementation here is maybe not the best, and as mentioned already in this thread, only works well when everyone wants to win every chance they get. The core issue is that alliances shouldn’t be wanting to lose fiefs.

As to the OP, my understanding is that the LB changes as wars end. The LB is fixed at the values alliances have when the war starts. The LB shown in the list with other alliances may change if other wars finish after you begin a war, but the LB in that war once started stays the same.

Main issue is lack of players participation why teams lose a war. For example it’s hard to motivate more than 30 players to do all their raids. In fact it’s embarrassing that from 50+ members, just 30 do all raids. It seems the war chests don’t motivate players to participate and I can understand why. 

Gold for war raids is horrible. What we see now is that a few players give descent gold, but since a lot of players immediately raid them, the other team shields the player after numerous attack and next time when we are again in war with them those players are shielded before we can even raid them, so say goodbye to finding descent gold from war opponents. Gold for top players seems to be fine, but when majority of the players give you 40k- gold, there is no stimulus to raid inside war, when you can get easily a factor 10 times more gold by raiding a player outside the season. 

I would suggest to make a war shop, where players can use their scored skulls to buy good items (similar like pro gear) and a war pal. It at least stimulates participation and to invest in skull gear. 

I understand the principle of a loser bonus very well. It helps to make a comeback after losing. But a loser bonus should be easy to interpret and at least at the moment it’s completely the opposite. The current skulls displayed inside the list totally don’t make any sense, it would be handy if there was some info button that explain us how that amount of skulls is calculated. We could see how other teams get their bonus plus our loser bonus. That would be a fantastic add-on. 

@Dena4 

yes) because even if you collect all the chests then the reward is very low. 

 

to me that is a separate issue. In our current war, every other alliance is trying to lose fief. I don’t think even if the gold rewards were high they would attack, or they would attack and try to lose which is still wrong.

making winning each fief worth it / always wanting to win should the be fundamental basis in wars. Once that is in place we can at least try motivate people to fight for the team. and the team should be what wars are about, not individual rewards.

after that is place to want to win every fief, then i think we can look at improving individual rewards.

Maybe we should get rid of fiefdoms. They are not good and I will explain why.

Worst case scenario is that we lose 3 fiefdoms and best case is winning 5 of them. Total difference is 8. This means that when you win 5 fiefdoms you can face next season a team that lost all their fiefdoms, making the difference 8 fiefdoms. With all kind of respect, even war boosts won’t help you to win a war against a much stronger team. What is also wrong with current seasons is that strongest team decides which other team will get which reward. Say team A is strongest on the map and team B is second strongest. When team A locks team B in a corner, there is no way they will ever can reach second place, in fact, when team A decides to raid team B and reduce their fiefdoms, they even don’t get a reward. A realistic scenario nowadays is that a very strong team located in the center cuts the map in two parts and the rest can face 5 days in a row one or two other teams. 

In most ideal scenario, we would face each team twice during whole season, but I never saw this happen, since cornered teams need to fight their way through the center. That’s why most wars also happen there, unless the clearly strongest team has it’s fiefdoms there. 

Losing a season is logical, some boosts teams aren’t interested in. It’s because we can prolong the boosts we are interested till end of next season that we can win them. So the chances increase to win the boosts your teams want, by dropping unwanted fiefdoms when you aren’t interested in a specific set of war boosts. Also… you don’t risk to face top teams by having too many fiefdoms. 

That’s why I suggest to demote current war boosts and make them normal boosts. Make the season boosts the rewards and only prolong them to start of new season, with no possibility do prolong them. So everyone starts a new season without any advantage. Only advantage you have then, is to boost the demoted war boosts.

I would like a system where we don’t need to declare a war, but just need to fight each team twice. Then there is no need for a loser bonus and teams will do their best to win the season, unless all seasonal boosts aren’t interesting. 

Fiefdoms are required to match similar strength alliances together. It just doesnt work right now as alliances manipulate fief dropping etc so much stronger teams face weak ones. If fiefs are made important so no one wants to drop, then you won’t get such uneven match ups.

what you are explaining about is map placement etc will be solved automatically if alliances don’t drop fiefs. Presumably someone stuck in corner can break out with LB if they are relatively evenly matched. Also the second strongest team always has opportunity to hit someone else in the first round and not get stuck in corner. If they choose to attack the #1 strongest team, then it is sort of their own fault. The map placements while it could be improved, do make the wars bit more strategic and fun, again IF everyone always wanted to win.

a system where you just fight everyone twice, yes would be more ‘fair’ but less fun IMO.
And still the core issue remains, alliances will still be trying to lose fiefs to make it easier to win the boosts they want.

Suggestion to juggle the boosts and what not, change which boosts are rewards, I probably sound like a broken record, but still won’t solve issue with alliances trying to lose fiefs to make it easier to win the boosts they want.

The core issue here is making sure everyone always wants to win every war. Where ever possible, it’s always better to solve the core issue than to keep making band aid solutions to problems caused by the the core issue.

Hi All, please do not hijack my thread to discuss the shortcomings of the current war system.  :slight_smile:

@GalaMorgane, since you’re the community manager and seem to be talking to devs too, can you provide an answer to my quite simple question about loser bonus fixed or not for a running war?

You are correct

very-sorry-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

You can see the LB for individual wars when you click on them, under each alliances score. This does not change during the war / set when the war starts.
As I mentioned above, this may differ to what you see in the skull bonus screen list (accessed from the season standings) as once you start a war, other wars can finish which will change the LB in the skull bonus screen.

 

 

haha… well I gave him an answer first up :slight_smile:  

At this stage, if CM replies i don’t know whether i’ll be

  1. happy if CM provides info - as in great she is answering questions.
  2. annoyed she gives feedback for this and ignores providing feedback elsewhere.

Exactly this is not the case, at least for me. Just to be sure, you’re talking about these numbers, right?

These numbers are not fixed, they change when you or the other lose a war later on. These numbers always match the numbers at the skull bonus screen. At least that’s how it behaves for me, and that’s what triggered my initial question.

Or isn’t it? :grinning:

Here the screen shots from the same war as above, at different times…

 

@GalaMorgane, @Archimedes, my question is, is this a display bug and the bonus used stays fixed during war. Or is the skull bonus different when playing at different times in the same war?

@KKStarconfirmed to me in a private conversation there was a display bug. LB-Values were counted correctly but the wrong (old) value was shown.
But that conversation was from October last year.

To my knowledge there was no info from Flare about this being fixed. But due to Flares very intransparent way of handling the bug fixing this is indeed something @GalaMorgane has to answer.

 

yes that is what i was talking about. I did not know they now changed, and according to MK maybe they are supposed too? I am not sure now.

I’m pretty sure they didn’t change before once the war started, and thought that was on purpose so you didn’t have to rush to fight before / wait til other wars finished due to LB changing. ie. once the war starts it is set, which made sense to me.

good to know thanks for bringing it up, good thing CM didn’t lock the thread for going off topic before your post

Hello there,

After checking with the Devs, here is what they told me: The Bonus can in fact change when you are a Champion. It also changes depending on how many Champions there are. If you’re not a Champion, it will stay the same throughout the War.

Hope this helps :slight_smile:

Gala

Hi there Gala, I think you have gone off topic as the query has nothing to do with champions, but please do not lock the thread.

If you read the again, Thomas is saying the bonus is changing through the war without champion  - in line with LB from losing wars.
which from your response seems like something is wrong since the devs expect it to stay the same.

edit: just wanted to point out also in thomas’s screenshot, the LB goes down in the second one. So obviously it is not going down from activating champs, nor will the opposing team LB change from champs.