Losing trophies for defeating castle gate - please fix

Bases like the one in the attached picture. Clever, but super cheesy/cheap. If you use any ranged troops, they will kill the castle gate from the side, leaving almost all of the barricades and towers intact. And then, even though you defeated the castle, you lose trophies because it’s like a 70% victory.

I understand why the game does this (to not reward players for rushing the castle gate and not really defeating the defenses). But this base layout is exploiting that game mechanic to ensure no trophies can be lost. (Unless the defenses are so weak you can defeat it using only knight+ogre+wolf.)

Anyway, in this particular case it doesn’t seem right that killing the castle gate from the side should result in a trophy loss. It should just be treated like an open base and reward very low medals. And at worst zero trophies, not negative trophies.

Do not use Cannon or any other Troops that has lot of range and the problem is solved.

Right, and I mentioned that above. But that only works if the base is relatively weak. There’s no way you’re beating a base with high level towers and barricades, using only knights, ogres, and wolves. Even archers (who have the shortest range of any ranged troop) can still hit the gate from the side.

My point is, that if you kill the castle gate, you should never lose trophies. Zero trophies, maybe, but never losing trophies.

you should recall the troops once you arrived in the upper corner of the map so troops follow you a bit.

Ive adopted this exact design a couple days ago, and I love it Not because it works well, although it does if you arent prepared. I got someone with my name on their favorites list who whoops it 3 times every hour

 

That being said, I do not attack people with this base design. I use too many ranged troops and never scream them past at the right time. Just find people with bases you can beat with your favorite strategy, and fill your favorites list with em.

Actually…now that I look at the exact placement of that base… Innit that my rig…? :wink:

 

Hah! What are the odds. I literally have had this design for about 36 hours lol

 

 

Yup. Your loss is my gain, and vice versa. I typically sit around 3700 trophies, been low recently cause like I said, got some people who like to whoop on me 3 times an hour. Thats why I switched up the base design. One of them lost trophies and stopped attacking. :wink:

Well, sitting in the 3700 trophy range puts you in the top ~1300. So I’d say the odds aren’t really all *that* slim. :stuck_out_tongue:

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree about the trophy loss thing. I guess it’s not the only way you get tricked into losing trophies in this game. (e.g. the people who somehow manipulate their medal counts to be really low - like 60-70 or less - even though they have defenses just as strong as someone who gives several hundred medals.)

Ok, as this design seems to be spreading since some Todesritter guys “invented” (or reinvented?) and used it… let me say a few words on that.

 

Lower-ranked people usually still get trophies for a 70-80% win (even up to 15 trophies, so you definitely CAN and WILL lose trophies with such a base, if you don’t have an actually strong base). Higher-ranked people usually lose some trophies for an 80% win, but they are supposed to be stronger than you and should be able to get a 100% or near 100% if they properly look at the base preview and act accordingly. Similar-ranked players might win or lose trophies, depending on how strong or successful the loot algorithms see them relative to you… e.g. if a high-ranked player loses badly against some bases and then attack your base, they might get better rewards than if they won all their recent battles… so it’s hard to predict exact outcome trophy-wise for similar-ranked players. 

 

Having that said, of course this design targets at giving a 70% win to the attacker basically almost for free / very easily, while making it harder to get a 100% win with the usual ranged troop combinations. Though, as always, a certain base design has certain counter troop and spell combinations, and this gate-kille®-design is no exception to that rule. With appropriate combos you can definitely defeat it.

Let’s not forget that just using some standard combo on EVERY base is not the way you are supposed to handle things, and at least in lower and medium level gameplay that’s not what will make you successful. I mean, you also don’t complain if you fail an all-firebolt-towers base when you bring poison cloud spell and only melee troops… instead you should just bring pyromancers or the firestorm spell and mow through that base effectively.

 

And sure, it might be hard as lately with all-L-shape or N-shape bases it is an uncommon experience to fight anything else, but that tells more about the overall lack of variety than about this particular design. Plus, as it is quite likely to get at least 70-80% in such a base, you have most of the loot for almost sure after the first minute at most, while on some other bases you might fail to get even 70% after the full time… so complaining this design would be unfair and overpowered or anything similar seems a bit off…

 

Also, just take a completely-empty, straight-line path base as an example, no towers, no obstacles. Now, put two towers right next to the gate (one on the left, one on the right).

If you rush forward and kill the gate while those two towers are still alive, you get exactly 75% (and not 100%), as you didn’t beat the complete defenses. And with some storm cannons, this is very likely to happen if you don’t go ahead with your hero and destroy the towers on your own, ahead of your troops. Still, you can do exactly that, as the overal base design / defenses aren’t too hard to overcome, right? Really, nothing else here, just in a more elaborate way.

 

And, really honestly, saying you get punished for winning in a gate-kille®-design is very wrong. If you just take the straight run to the gate and let your cannons kill the gate across path overlap, while like 12 towers and 10 blockades are still alive, then you did definitely not complete the mission of completely destroying the defense. Not even close! Infact, that way you just skipped most of the defense, which makes it very easy even for a weaker player, to kill the gate. Then complaining you didn’t get 100% but (only 70%) for doing like 25% of the work and only spending 25% of the time… sry but that’s not really a valid complaint. :wink:

If I wanted to complain, it would rather be about regular bases where you spend 100% of your time for taking out all of the defenses and most of the gate, doing like 90% of the work and then getting a 60-70% because in the end you run out of time when you only needed like 5 more seconds to a 100% win… THAT is what is more unfair actually. :grinning:

(Yes, that point of view might be uncommon, but it’s worth a thought!)

 

Also, just take top 10 for example: They would already lose trophies for a 95% raid (including killed gate) on another similar-ranked (top 10) base, so why should a 70% raid on a similar-ranked base not make your lose trophies?

 

 

Btw, knight+ogre+wolf is a powerful combination with elite boosts, used by several high-level players also against regular-designed high-level bases, so I see no reason in claiming this combo could only be succesful against very weak defenses. Also, let’s not forget gargoyles, archers, mummies, maybe paladins, as well as longer-ranged units with proper timing. Also, a wise choice of spells can help (compare above).

 

 


Also, with the available options of opening base, losing fights on purpose, lowering your trophies, etc etc, there is very much room for influencing the loot and strength estimation algorithms very much, which is affecting many more players than an unfamiliar (and nothing else it is) base design ever could, and which doesn’t require any kind of base-building skills either… so if you want to complaing about hard bases or unfair loot, complain about that stuff and not about a base layout that is very well defeatable.

 

#Edit: While we’re at it, yay finally some more discussion about base layouts! :slight_smile:

And by the way, as it is true for many base layouts, just copying a path is not enough to make this gate-kille®-design work well. You need to adjust tower types, placement, wave troop composition etc in order to fit that concept… but that’s content for another reply at a later time…

 

Agreed. I must admit, I put very little thought into this design. I merely smashed all my towers that were previously in a modified L shaped base to the corner by the gate, and didnt adjust my waves very much either. This was never a permanent base plan for me, just a stop-gap design to deter those individuals who got me on speed-dial

 

I plan to go back to my original design after I upgrade my towers in this layout for a bit. As it is, people get 80-85% easily, even when fully ‘tricked’ by the design. If I adjusted accordingly, I could probably lower that to 70%.

Buuut, since were talking about it anyways, anyone got any suggestions for units/tower placement for this design? If I had to guess, Id say poison towers are virtually useless, unless you put them in the top right corner, hoping that they never get touched. Firebolts could be useful by the initial few sparse gates, just to add a tower that the king couldnt take out in one shot with the gate…but you kinda want to keep the enemies cannons alive, so maybe not even there. So…what? 100% skull towers? :wink:

And waves…hmm. Something that whoops melee, but dies easy to ranged units…you want those alive to take the gate on accident…Ogres? Ogres and wolves.

Thoughts anyone?

 

You want something that keeps ranged units and especially cannons alive, while holding back and slowing down the king and melee troops or potentially even killing the king if he rushes ahead.

 

Thus, I wouldn’t say snake towers are useless :wink:

Cannons easily destroy them in a matter of seconds, any ranged troops will sooner or later bring it down, but if placed in a good way, the hero can’t easily get past without taking a lot of damage. So for the initial part, snakes are quite nice to have.

 

Also, high-damage ranged troops such as arblasters, boosted archers, gargoyles are not the worst choice, as they can’t easily be ignored on the king’s march towards the castle gate, so either the king has to focus on killing them or will take massive (possibly lethal) damage.

 

 

But there are some variants of the gate-killer-design, with and without overlapping paths either before or after the gate-killer-point, and as such they need slightly different troops/towers as well.

I Need to understand a little more about this game before I can submit anything

Will anyone scroll on these base? Probably not.

 

Nope. almost no one scrolls.

 

Im about to change it up. I got someone who is almost the same lvl as me who steals 8 trophies for an 80% raid. not sure how he manages that.  hes draining me hardcore

This type of base, i just replace cannon by ogre , they do pretty good melee attack instead of range (and i used to 100% scroll free top 20 bases who adopt this base design with ogre) . If u wanna use cannon to attack, u might as well spawn cannon later when time left say 1min. 

 

p/s : I recall if first see this design from Misionimposible from Vanguard Legion. 

That one might be a horrible raider, so the trophy algorithm thinks of him as very weak, so he gets trophies even for just 80%. Or that guy recently dumped trophies, or is really weaker/lower lvl hero despite having similar trophies?

 

One thing is that you can try to kill the hero when he goes ahead without ranged troops… then people will scroll sometimes :wink:

One example of top 10 base that adopt this design (FLOT666 ) and being scroll free a few minutes ago by me. 

 

p/s; don’t know how to attach pic

I had a guy that kept farming me with ranged units (keep in mind, I specialize in Ogres). I changed to this design, and so did he, and now /I’m/ farming /him/ :wink: