Practical Example of Superforging and Refinements

Hey there,

I did a little bit of forging to show you what kind of items you can expect to craft.

I’m on Ascension Level 130 and started with the following Epic 1-Star items:

A regular cape with some Cooldown Bonus:

I fully upgraded it to 5-Star Titan, superforging it by exclusively destroying 4-Star items (or 5-Star items when forging it on Titan level):

This piece of body armor was cursed and has quite high Physical Resistance for a green item:

Look at the Physical Resistance gained by superforging:

And here some nice bracers which were also cursed, featuring Demolition:

The Demolition Chance of this item would actually only be around 33k had I not superforged it:

1st Refinement

So I decided to refine my body armor by destroying the Demolition bracers:

As you can see, all the numbers are now quite low since the item is reduced to 1-Star Epic quality. But if you compare those values to the item when it was still Bronze you will notice that the Health has increased and the Physical Resistance went up to 19k before it was normalized. Adding a new perk caused both the Physical Resistance and the Demolition to get normalized to 50% of their strength.

Where did the frostbite go on those claws?

And on the first item, the power shawl, what would the cooldown be if you used another 5* cooldown cape to refine? The item would refine to 1star silver green, but the perk would not be normalized, correct? Because you’re not adding a 2nd perk?

What I’m getting at is: is it still possible to forge an item, like a cape, with very high levels of a single perk? 64k cooldown on a 5 star titan item is half  of what was was possible under the old forging system.

It’s gone. It was replaced because I dismantled a Gold item which adds 2 new perks to the item. Dismantling a Silver item adds 1 perk, dismantling a Gold item adds 2 perks. If no more perks can be added, the existing ones will be replaced.

Refining always adds a new perk. Since items can’t have duplicate perks, a new random perk is put on the item in this case. This would be a perk which can appear on the type of item you destroyed but I would still not recommend doing it since you don’t know for sure what you will get. :grinning:

So is it random which perk would get over-written in that situation? Was there a chance of keeping frostbite?

Can you please adjust the perk normalization ratios then? 50% and 75% is too low.

Alternately, could you make it so you have more control over the perks that get added, and if you use an identical item to refine a 5* titan, make it so it will just become a more powerful version of the same thing? It’s not the easiest thing in the world to get identical items, which would make it a challenge. I would often rather have one powerful perk on an item than 2 weak ones.

Great post. Thanks

So what I initially thought about Overarching is true:

 

Or you can just dismantle an item which has a perk that is not already on the item you refine. In this case you will get this exact perk.

 

Yeah no. Normalization is supposed to normalize the perks, not boost them. When an item has one perk and you add another perk to it, the strength of both must be halved to keep the same level of power. The overall power of both perks increases as you keep refining and superforging your item.

The boost rates are too low then. I’m not trying to be a dick, but it’s not right yet. 

Or it’s waaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive. 

Yeah it’s very expensive in terms of gold!! Am gonna blow some, will prob have to stop building etc to do this, as for it to be worth it you need to get your perks and make them 5* titan all within the same ascension lvl. Forge your unique to current ascension lvl (10mil +5*titan)  Get your perks up to 5* titan lvl, as well as a base titan item( to 5*) to use as a transfer mechanism (if you don’t want to leave it to chance) So to do that above your needing prob over 60 million for starters and about 500k books? 

got some perks this lvl which will be very useful.  On the + side all the attacking I’ve done yesterday for gold has raised my trophy count by 600 already!

 

Let me just soapbox a little more.

So you’re paying millions of gold to get 2 items to 5* titan. Uber millions if you’re boosting along the way.

Then you refine them, once again at great expense, to create one item with 3 perks, 2 of which will be 50% as strong as they used to be after you spend millions and millions of more gold to get them back to titan range.

So AT BEST you have as much utility as you did with a single high powered item (which is nowhere near as good as the items were under the old forging system), but in some situations 2 ponies =/= 1 horse. There are several perks which require a minimum threshold in order to be effective, so by adding 2 50% perks together you have less utility than 1 100% perk.

This is a swindle. Nobody should be buying what you’re selling.

If the Normalization rates were modified, you would start to get utility for all the gold you’re spending to refine and reforge. If the boost rates were increased you could see some of the same utility as well.  If it were cheap as anything to forge (i.e., taking an item to 5-gold titan is approximately as expensive and time consuming as 5-bronze titan is currently) then we could be on to something too.

But as things are now, this is a bad deal for the player. It looks nice but it’s a bad deal.

(my preference would be to have properly powered items rather than cheap items. If it’s too cheap and upgrades are too fast you’re constantly babysitting them. Horse vs. ponies again)

It is nice to make when you have so gems as Chris to use a momental option, otherweis it is to expensive and to long to wait. As for me i better use a normal way.

or developers need to change a preis and time to make all people be interesting in this option

I like the idea of the new forging system. BUT, after refining it to titan gold, the perks have become too low. Players spending so much resources and time in forging should be rewarded with stronger perks instead of it being halved. Rewarding a player means you get more loyalty from them. So, do reconsider the strength of the perks

@Chris what have you done with the forging system?

Old forging system was the tool for the new accounts to catch up with the old accounts, accounts that are play OR for two or more years.

Now with you super nerfed forging system I can’t fight any high ascenion level players that have everything maxed out be barricades,towers, units or gatekeeper.

Please use my account and fight opponents on my map.

I have 9k trophies just few minutes ago reached level 111 but for past two months,

I am finding it hard to beat accounts with 120+ Ascenion level.

Please roll out this update or degraded version of forging.(This is a scam ,guys come on don’t play with us ? )

Everyone hates it(including myself too)

Tell me have you noticed increased in the strength of the ancient Defender with your so called patch 4.0.3?

Let me give you an honest feedback you have made gatekeeper even more strong.

Now I am meeting same Gatekeepers that I can defeat prior to that patch with ease now it takes more time to kill them plus some have become immortal in true sense.

Now I miss that old forging system more.

 

So, trying to comply with the new forge rules, I am upgrading this sword, but I get practiacally no benefits at all from forging with a purple 4 star versus a purple 1 star: I just get 5 attack points, and ONE single Area Damage.

Any input to help me understand this?

image.jpg

@HOLYDIVINE, you were too dependant on super forges! I remember your multi res statue you had for a while ascension lvl105! 

But yeah its pretty tough now without good forges for the strong heroes, especially attacking guys with some blessings.

@CaptainMorgan, the GK issue Holydivine states is very real, something happened after that update, I’ve had GK’s now I couldn’t kill with hades, and the vast majority are far stronger, I avoid GK now almost 100% of the time unless war.  Must be Life on hit stat getting an massive increase or something.

@Philstar, no it’s not Loh.

Yes it seems it works that way but what do I like the most it’s the usage of useless items that can be used to make 4*. It’s a pity though, those values could be a bit higher as the Gap with the top alliances and their old players will get increased even more.

so that 1 above forge got an increase of about 2.5% using 4* purple, and around 2.3% with 1* purple.  Personally I’d use all 4* up to titan, but can’t justify blowing millions later in the forge process for 0.2% extra if the weighting stays the same at all lvls…

Maybe I am reading your numbers wrongly, and if so, I am sorry, but the difference between dismantling the 1 star and 4 star purple is 1/761th Area Damage.

And the cost of a 4 star purple is (or at least was) a million gold plus a days worth of forging. That’s a pretty steep price to pay for 1/761th.

But I guess pretty much everyone in this forum, except the devs find this new forge a ridiculous rip off designed to sell more gems and disrupting the 

I did those number roughly in my head, but having now got the calculator out… the use of 1* purple boosts both qualities by 2.299%.   The use of a 4* boosts the top quality by 2.5% and the area damage by only 2.4% (almost certainly due to a low number integer- so it’s prob quite close to the next integer (763). 

So actually the difference is 0.2% lower if you use a 1* rather than a 4* in each stage.  Assuming all stages are equal  - green -blue- purple-etc.

I’m guessing that during gold forging, those numbers are probably greater, it seemed Chris was hinting that fact when he mentioned super forging cycles etc

0.2% =1/500     your 1/761th is because of the low integer, when in reality it is 1/500

 

I also observe that and wondered about this…

@CaptainMorgan, @Chris:  in the beginning of forging there is only a small difference weather a 1* or 4* item is dismanteled, as already shown here. The question is: is there any (remarkable) benefit later on if an item is only forged with 4* or can similar results also be achieved if sometimes also lower items are used? 

Do you sum up (or multiply up) the %-increase of all forging steps before and this is used to calculate the boost for an actual forge process? e.g. does it matter (beside the base values of an item), if someone finds a new 1* purple item from a chest that has the same values like an 1* purple item that has already 8 forging steps (so started from 1* green) on it: if these two where from now on forged with the “same” items, would the result then be the same (in the first bronce cycle), or does the history of forging (again: beside the actual values) also count (like if the values where always be calculated from their initial base values and a summarized/multiplied %-forge boost). I hope you know what i mean…