Recalculate the worth of Castle Gate.

Ok, so, pretend it takes you 10 seconds to destroy the Castle Gate. And it takes you 2:32 or more to get there. I don’t like that the last second is worth 25%, and that the previous 9 seconds are also worth 25%, whereas the rest of the base is worth crap. It’s incredibly disheartening to pass through the entire base, with all it’s skull towers and spell-casting monsters; to have used scrolls to do so; to get the very end; and to be told that I “only completed 50% of the base.” Makes it feel like the whole raid didn’t even matter, just because I didn’t have those 10 seconds.

Here’s what I would suggest:

  1. Move the milestones, to 25%, 50%, and 75%. I’ve always thought it was kind of silly to have a milestone right at the end. That literally contradicts the definition of a milestone.

  2. Make the Castle Gate health worth 10% of overall raid.

  3. Make the Castle Gate actual demolition worth 10% of the overall raid + treasure chamber.

Because, again, there’s nothing more disheartening than completing the hardest 94% of a base, and being told that you “only completed 50%” of it. If anything, this is just a /step/ towards actual accuracy.

In which world have you seen a castle where the gates dropped at first touch? Not saying the game should have been close to the history facts ,but you cant ignore that the gate is the last stand where you gave everything  you’ve got for your survival.So in this case the gates are worth more than your entire journey from the tend to the castle gates. 

   But I do respect your point of view and I can see the logic of it, behind the frustration of that missing second…happens to all of us.

Good point Lancelot (he knows what he says, he’s from Camelot! :wink:

 

Also, don’t forget in the real world your defenses and troops would all be destroyed after an attack, so you would be completely unprotected for a next one, and rebuilding all your towers and stuff, as well as “getting” (birth, growing up for years, food, clothes, education, etc) new soldiers and equipment for them would probably be more expensive than rebuilding a treasury (that gets partially plundered in RR2 anyway) or a workshop and a couple taverns. Not to forget, in real life as well as in RR2 farms lie outside the gate, so food income is lost for a year even when the gate does survive :grinning:

Let alone the fact that in real life, when breaking the gate (which is actually the city gate, not the castle gate), you’d have to kill the remaining troops in the city, and then proceed to the actual castle (gate) for the final part of the battle, while in RR2 the battle is won when you breach the castle city gate. Also, generally, the linear path thing is quite an abstraction compared to real life… 

 

Anyway, getting to the point, I guess just generally reducing the importance of the castle gate would screw up balancing, and make e.g. doom gate meaningless, trophy stripping more dominant than ever, etc… so I’d be fine with getting 50% of rewards for reaching the gate.

But having a 2nd (additional) value, let’s call it “progress” that says “you progressed to 90% of the base!” would make me feel better, as that’s more of a fair judgement of the effort made. 

So then for reaching the gate in a raid I’d get a message saying “Congratulations, you got 2 crowns, will be rewarded 50% of the loot, and you have achieved a progress into the base of 90%”. Fair judgement of raiding effort, but no messed-up balancing and “let’s put all our gold outside the gate” phenomenon. 

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING ABOVE!

 

To come at it from a logical point of view…

 

You didn’t beat the castle if you didn’t get through the gate!

 

You don’t deserve sh!t.

 

That’s what the game’s about beating the castle!

 

This is like saying: “It’s so hard to get a basket ball through the hoop let’s make the backboard count for at least 90%, you got the ball in the air and everything!.. Bitch, Bitch Bitch…”

So you say “getting ball through hoop is hard, thus gives score, and just throwing it into the air is easy, thus gives no score”, and I agree that this completely makes sense. 

 

But a raid is not like a single throw that either hits or misses. If you fail to beat the gate in time, it’s not like you accomplished nothing at all. The contrary is true: You already destroyed basically all the base except the gate when you reach the gate, so you destroyed all but one obstacle, and basically have passed all of the by-far hardest challenges (really, even the doom gate isn’t that tough, it’s the beginning or middle (depending on layout) that is toughest and most difficult to do correctly) in the base. 

Considering 17 towers, 13 barricades, 12 waves = 42 obstacles, and the gate = 1 obstacle, so in total 43, that means you successfully beated 42 out of 43. If you do a test and get 42 correct answers out of 43 questions, would you say it’s fair to only receive 50% of full points? 

 

Or in a basketball game, when one team scores 42 points and the other one 43. Sure, the first team didn’t win, but it was very close, and nobody would say that they’re only half as good as the others just because they earned 1 little point less. 

 

So why would “totally destroying the whole defense” with just the gate left in the end, be only 50% of a base?

 

And it’s not like 50% of the effort for a successful raid would be “killing the gate”, but rather only 2-5% of the effort (and also of the time) are for the gate (especially without doom gate). 

This “gate equals 50%” might be a fair judgement on a straight-path base without any towers or obstacles, only waves and the gate, but definitely not for a full base. 

 

So if I beat 90% of a base, why not give me the credits and tell me “you progressed 90%”? 

And, as said above, I see a point in not receiving 90% of rewards (gold, medals, trophies, skulls) for it but only 50%, so it’s not about “don’t deserve sh!t”.

My point was and is: Saying “you only beat 50% of the” base when you have in fact destroyed 90% of it, is not accurate, true or “fair” if you think about it.

If 90% progress yields only 50% of reward, ok, but telling me 90% progress is only 50% progress is wrong. 

@lancelot and maerique, let’s open a photoshop service for sentinel, heroesflo and people alike, we’ll help them sleep better at night for getting their 90% progress, and we’ll make some money to buy gems…

From that point of view, the time limits don’t make sense either. You could easily argue,

“You didn’t tear down the gate, you get nothing inside”

“I had plenty left to year down the gate with, so why could I not?”

The entire game is unrealistic. That’s why it makes sense to balance the game based on gameplay. Because the chance for realism flew out the door ages ago.

as usual, sentinel always say that something is wrong too hastily… this is one of it http://forums.flaregames.com/topic/6120-something-is-fishy-with-league-records/ … the calculation for gate is realistic enough, and also for heroesflo, since you like numbers, here’s some number for you and sentinel

 

have both of you ever count the buildings inside the gate? i did, and i found these :

 

37 houses

4 taverns

1 inventor workshop

1 granny shop

1 castle guard

1 silo

1 dungeon with 70 Chambers 

1 treasure chamber

1 troops academy

1 alliance tower

1 wizard’s tower

1 throne room

 

total = 51 buildings 

 

vs.  17 towers + 13 obstacles + 8 waves = 38 (@flo, maybe you’re special that you got 12 waves, if you were referring to the waves that come twice, 1-5 come twice… so it will be 13…)

 

now let’s see the percentage, shall we :

 

51+38 = 89

 

51/89 * 100 = 57.3% --> for gate

 

38/89 * 100 = 42.7% 

 

now let’s say that the repeating waves are taken into account :

 

51+43 = 94

 

51/94 * 100 = 54,25% --> for gate

 

43/94 * 100 = 45,75%

 

 

now you may argue, that the granny shop and alliance tower is relatively new… even if you take those 2 away, the percentage won’t change much… and about the farms, they are kinda like in neutral zone, i can’t say that the gate is protecting them and they certainly do not belong to the outer defence…

 

usually, if you even barely managed to scratch the gate a bit, the game will give you 60% or more… be thankful for that.

 

now please tell me, who is the unrealistic ones??

About the waves, well true there are 13 and not 12 since a while. Though, if you don’t get to the gate before the end of the raid, chances are that you maybe won’t destroy the final wave either, which spawns a few seconds before, right at the gate… so ok, then 42/44 obstacles, or 43/44 depending on whether or not the final wave survives. Doesn’t make much of a difference to the argument, though. 

Anyway, yes, to be exact, we need to include the 13th wave in the calculation. 

But counting only 8 waves is definitely wrong, because as we all know now, 5 waves appear twice during a raid, so you have to kill them twice and not just once. :grinning:

 

When destroying the castle gate, you don’t even touch a single one of the inner buildings, so following your argument, you wouldn’t even get 50% for beating all defenses and the gate, which obviously wouldn’t make sense. 

The inner buildings are not even part of a raid, so they don’t count as they are nothing that is even attackable or destroyable in the game. A raid is about destroying those things outside the gate (and the gate itself), so when figuring out percentages and numbers, only those things are to be considered. 

To repeat it: Counting inner buildings that are NOT part of the raid as part of the % success for the raid makes no sense. That’s like saying “you got only 1% of the points for your test when answering all questions of your test completely correctly, because outside and independent of the test, the whole world around you contains way more questions”. 

Plus, everything is packed together, so 1 Blizzard could destroy the whole kingdom. My argument of “I still have troops, so realistically, I should’ve won” still stands.

Plus, even if there /were/ other units on the other side of the gate, what say you to those who took down the gate with no troops? How could someone who took down the gate, but had no troops, get 100% on the whole city? They couldn’t.

Intact, your argument actually validates mine. You’re agreeing with me that getting the gate down to 1% health, plus having a ton of troops left, shouldn’t be worth less than getting the gate down to 0% health, but having 0 troops left.

@flo and sentinel, remember, those buildings like houses, taverns and 10 other building and if there /were/ other units on the other side of the gate, all were inside the gate and this gate then represent the kingdom as unison… you saw that the gate has 2 layers right? too bad the game won’t show you the visual effect of them falling down too… they all will be destroyed if you win the raid…

so basically, the gate really is their last defense. If you watched movies about war in old times, you can see almost all people are defending the gate as their last chance. Once you destroy the gate, there’s is nothing to hold you anymore inside them. The two of you are too focus on seeing the gate as a single entity as if it isn’t representing the whole kingdom… and especially sentinel, too focus on troops, tons of troops left or 0 troop won’t matter once you destroy the gate that is representing the whole kingdom.

Still, if your last invaders die while breaking the gate, the city will win even with the gate destroyed, as the remaining defenders on top of walls and towers of the city wall or the fortess inside the city are still there and you have no invasion force left to overtake the city or the castle inside it. 

 

Plus, don’t forget we’re talking about RR2 not about real life.

In RR2, the whole inside of the city is NOT part of the raid, telling something else is simply wrong.

Sure, in real life, the city would be part of an attack, but in real life I’d make a hole in the wall on the backside, skipping gate and all of the path and traps and towers and troops altogether. And in real life, the defenders would also know that and instead of putting up that nice path in front of their gate, they’d fortify their walls all around the city with towers, traps and ranged troops on top of the walls all around the town, so all those defenses present in a RR2 raid wouldn’t even be placed by the defender. Also, there would be no 2:45 time limit in real life, and the defensive waves and structures wouldn’t be automatically rebuilt/replaced for the next raid. Plus, in real life, the attacker would burn the farms destroying the harvests for a year, or just plunder them for themselves, and also they might build trebuchets to fire rocks, diseased corpses, fire or explosives into the town, or man some siege ladders and towers to do the trick and just storm the walls, or tunnelors to crack them. 

Plus, in real life, you wouldn’t have frosters and pyromancers, doom gates, flaming knights, mummies, spells, and cannons would be able to kill the gate from the start of the path. 

as i mention before, try to think that the gate is representing the whole kingdom… the system in the game make it that gate and whatever inside is doomed when someone destroy the gate. Just like when you kill each towers, i believe they aren’t automatic and don’t have movement detector that know to shoot if enemy is near, considering the century they are in… some troops will be inside to operate it, and once you destroy the tower, whatever inside will be gone too…

 

If FG want to make the gate as a single entity like you have in your mind, they won’t wrap it around the kingdom, why don’t just put 2 connecting towers that act like a gate without wrapping the kingdom ??, so it will be “just another obstacle” like the other tower…

 

and i didn’t say everything in there is like real life, but FG did take some cues from real life. You can send a ticket to flare asking them how do they calculate the percentage … and i bet, my calculation above will be the nearest answer.

Your calculation says that a now-100% victory with gate kill would only give less than 50% as all buildings behind the gate are untouched. Your raid doesn’t destroy a city, only the gate (watch some video footage of raids if you don’t believe me). You don’t even see what is behind the gate during a raid. In fact, you might just raid a wall somewhere else :stuck_out_tongue:

 

The town is not “inside” the gate. Just like your neighbor’s garden is not inside his garden door or inside the fence between both gardens. It lies behind. The city doesn’t crumble when the gate falls, only the table and 2 chairs of the gate guards that actually are inside the gate will be destroyed. :grinning:

 

Also, don’t tell me FG “wrapped the gate around the kingdom” - the gate is in a single, well-defined place, the rest is the wall. You don’t attack the whole wall all around the castle, only the place where the gate is. And for sure that is aesthetics derived from real life, but that does not make the back side of the wall or the inner wall ring or the taverns or whatever else part of the raid. Btw, as you’re so keen on insisting a gate kill kills the city: There’s a castle inside, and the whole treasury and other important stuff lies inside the castle. So, breaking the outer city gate wouldn’t make you win anything… Also, the wizards in the spell tower and the king in his throne room would give you hell :grinning:

erm is this really neccessary… I mean if you got 90% but still only get 50% of the reward, whats wrong with saying you got 90%? I dont see why you’re all arguing

Hey :slight_smile:

 

My opinion as player is the following:

If you had to fight all your way to the castle gate, by example through a base with 17 towers, 13 boosted barricades and 13 waves, it would seem normal to consider this as more important than just destroying the castle gate. Don’t get me wrong, destroying the castle gate is important, but the way to reach it is important too, and usually much harder.

It takes a long time to reach it and a lot of efforts, and I think this should be more valuated than destroying the castle gate. 

I personally think the castle gate should be worth at most 25% of the raid, to put at least a purpose.

It would push players trying to reach it, if it is not very important they may rely on just destroying the towers and barricades.

 

Also, my opinion doesn’t engage Flaregames to change the current values :grinning:

It would be good if Flare gives attention more to all your efforts to do all path to arrive to castle gate rather than only the castle Gate…

lol, if you’re one sec away from 100% then go practice more because many raider beat maxed out base with 15 seconds to spare.