Skull Tower update

I do agree that does look like too wide a range.  It says it’s 51.5%, but that looks more like 200%!  That needs balancing.  I don’t think it should increase the radius that much.  Albeit I haven’t personally tested it.  That’s just from watching the video.  Every idea needs balancing.  Maintain balance in the game has never been something Flare has been any good at!

Numbers literally don’t mean anything in this game lol

@AwesomestKnightest can you post a text link to the yt vid? Can’t see it on my mobile browser

 

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMSOdVFCZAU

 

 

It says 51.5% but that doesn’t mean anything because we have no idea what 100% is.

Instead of %, it should display the actual range.

So the videos proof what I told, congratulations flare, you made bomb plus skull towers worthless against players with that aura ring. Just run around a little bit and kick back all incoming projectiles. I know, Flotthaboss probably forged the ring to the extreme and we might ‘just’ get 40% kickback aura, but still this is what you call balancing, totally making a few towers obsolete when wearing that aura ring? 

Now it’s just hoping for us mortals to find that ring with the casino element, by being fortunate within an uber chest. Let me guess, it’s so rare that the odds are pretty low we ever find it.

Players who have it, will simply make the king amongst towers, the skull tower obsolete. It’s a game changer, players who have that ring now simply can use weaker ranged troops like frenzies and cannons and survive everything, while without that ring they would die before even looking. Do you even realize the amount of gold plus time required to max a skull tower plus even to forge all those stats is in fact a total waste, just due to this ring? Thanks to the addition of one ring, all that precious time and energy is wasted against players raiding with that ring. This has nothing to do with balancing, so I ask you to nerf that ring right now. 

Maybe next time you can introduce a ring that makes hero plus all troops nearby invincible as soon as a player asks for it, that would even make things more simple. I suggest you change it into percentage of chance kicking back a bomb, so that some bombs still pass through when you don’t touch the projectiles. That would at least solve the issue a little bit.

Don’t worrie Jack in 3.9.0 Flare will introduce a ring who give the Hero a white aura and be invincible for 60% of the raid like Sonic the hedgehog or Mario when you take a Star. Just run and destroy all until reach 60% of the base. Oh I forget to mention just close your eyes and bingo!! Enjoy

I take few minutes to watch the video and so much ridiculous. How in the hell a guy like Flothaboss have accepted this worst idea at all. So ridiculous. So just find the ring. Forge it at +200 and bingo. Close your eyes and advance and destroy all. So Skull Tower is useless,Bomb Tower is useless,Arrow Tower is useless, well Firebolt a part useless. What left in the game to defend the base? lol Frost Tower and Gargoyle tower or full Snake tower. Lightning is useless without boost. and the last one Basilisk I don’t know

So if I resume correctly now a level 80 can beat a level 120 or 130 full boosted with nothing just the Kick Bomb Aura forged at 50 or 60%

I don’t believe Flothaboss have accepted this idea. Wow

maybe the idea who kill the game. Congratulations

at least balance this shit to kick 1 bomb on 20 or 1 bomb on 10 not much

The new basilisk is even more absurd. While the tail is up, that plant is invulnerable. you have to approach it, wait for a few seconds till the tail stopped swiping and the head appears. Then  wait more, till the health bar arrives and only then hope to destroy it, before the head appears again in the ground. when that happens, you are screwed. You lose at least 5+ more seconds before the head appears. And worst case you spell is still inactive when the head again disappears. This could make you lose 15 seconds for one stupid tower. 

And guess what, more and more players put them aside both sides near the gate. I repeat, someone with no knowledge of the game at all must have come up with some invulnerable tower. Defensive structures never should be invulnerable.

I have see them a little but I have no clue they was absurb at this point. Another fail from Flare I guess. So someone just have to add 3,4,5 or full of them and bingo. 15 second each. LOL

yeap…

and the ring should not hit 100 ever… maybe 60% at the max if its a percentage of bombs That and blizzard would be enough of a nerf

It is not OP and doesn’t make the towers useless for the main reason that you can’t run ahead with it and use your spells, you have to stay near your troops the whole time, which slows you down in the end :slight_smile:

lot of ppl who complain abt the game being not balanced are wrong,as FTB said if ur not with ur troops,all ur units r gonna get rkt.tho who say they can close their eyes nd go forward,plz do so nd post the video(i wanna see how u don’t get smashed by ogre or other defence units).if u really wanna talk abt balancing,talk abt war match making,underpowered pals lyk eris,Archimedes etc.  

I seriously doubt it. Even with triple speed gear some skull traps are pretty tough. It’s nearly impossible to kick back every projectile without that ring, so your army will get crippled, even when you stay close to them and your hero will also lose some life points. With that ring, not a single scratch will occur.

You are seriously telling me that raid is slowed down by staying near troops? What about boosted wolf, ogre and knight combo? That isn’t slowed down, since we need to stay close anyway. Use kaiser as pal to take out towers and obstacles and exchange blizzard by sonic blast or bladestorm, blizzard you don’t need since skull towers won’t do damage to your army.

Wanna test the difference that proves the OP of that ring? You are the one telling us the skull plus bomb towers aren’t useless when wearing that ring. Just go for an extreme base with only bomb towers (to make it harder the triple bomb boost) plus skull towers, all towers forged to absolute max and max boost on bomb tower. Make that base like an extreme long dungeon without troops so that they don’t influence the outcome. Put a lot of bomb towers out of range close to start of the base and setup a lot of skull plus bomb traps. Also put some obstacles like blockades and barricades in there to keep army on one place for a split second. I know, it’s extreme.

Now raid without that ring, even when blizzard, sonic blast and for example shield as spells are used, with combo wolf, ogre and knight, most players won’t get pretty far. For ring, just pick a normal ring with frost damage,  without leadership and scream and any other special power. To show you what I mean, use triple speed gear.

As pal use not the panda and no bucky, just another pal of level 1, so that it doesn’t influence the outcome.

Most players will fail, reason for this is that hero can’t deflect all incoming projectiles and when a trap of skulls is there, you can’t run forward, since your army is destroyed by triple bombs shot from out of range. Now your option is hope to deflect as many skull projectiles plus incoming bombs, which is quite impossible. so massive damage is done to your army, it will be crippled and for most players end of raid.

Now exchange just the ring for kickback aura. I bet that most every player will get much further and some who before failed will now beat the base. Not only the troops get less damage, the hero doesn’t get any damage! That trap where many will fail, now is not that dangerous any longer. When a hero is hurt, he must either wait to heal or use something to heal (monk, heal ring, heal spell, panda). So that ring even saves time!

The simple reason for that is that now hero can deflect that many projectiles won’t any longer do massive damage. An army surviving makes a difference and a hero unharmed can take more risks (he doesn’t need to, his troops that didnt die, can take the risk). 

And this only by one ring. You still say it doesn’t make the skull trap useless? I dare to say the opposite. This example just shows how OP this ring in fact is.

In your video on previous page you actually showed my point, wolf, ogre knight as troops and spells not even needed to hurt bomb plus skull towers. Hero just needs to stay close to troops and bomb plus skull towers in your video are reduced to worthless towers. Can you do exact same raids without that aura ring while rest is same? The skull trap will definitely damage hero and the raid against a base will end in a quick defeat without that ring for sure. So that’s what is called not overpowered? You actually deliver the proof yourself that bomb plus skull towers are degraded to non important towers when someone uses that ring.

In my case I have 8 skull towers in my base, I was planning to even create more of them. Now I can simply throw that plan in the recycler, the king of towers is just degraded to a tower no longer able to wreck an army, when players wear that ring. 

Hello,

We did again more tests to confirm or infirm these claims, using both defenses using mostly Bomb Towers and Skull Towers, and the result is clear: It is far from OP.  We were defeated several times.

Please first have the item with the perk, try it, so you will understand this result more easily, because theory doesn’t match gameplay most of the time and this one is a good example for it.

Also please take in consideration that currently people are in a phase of adaptation for their defenses, they still use old strategies when the game proposes now new strategies. You can add to this to Pro Boosts coming in the next few weeks and you will find new challenges soon from other players :slight_smile:

May we ask how you tested it? I would like a test with similar troops pkus spells and gear, where only the kickback ring is used in test A and in test B without tht ring. Of course you got defeated sometimes, it also depends on spells amd pet you use. Heroesflorian gave you the spell combos plus pal that would help the ring tests to proof that it’s overpowered.

Like I explained, take out all other factors like defending troops plus other towers and objects that could hurt hero and troops. That is a fair test. Mainly using those towers implies that you also had other towers in there. Plus I expect troops plus beast being part of that test. That is no pure test. 

That you put in obstacles like blockade and barricade, fine, but don’t put in things that hurt the hero plus also no troops. Just bomb towers plus skull towers and no blizzard, sonic and so on. Just use the spells you used in your video, bladestorm, shield and stun. 

Just stay with your troops (ogre, wolf, knight) and test both scearios against bases with only boosted bomb pus skull tower traps, plus put in some none hurting obstacles. Then test. A world of difference.

I bet you come way further with that ring. Only by stupid mistakes (not staying with your main troops) will cause your troops to be killed. Can you explain how the hero can be hit at all? It’s quite impossible with that aura ring that hero get hit by a bomb or skull, so how could you ever be defeated? Only by running away from troops and getting damaged by troops , beast and other troops.

I not say for nothing to exclude every other part that can influence the test.  Otherwise a test with that ring aso would be valid against bases without skull and bomb towers. Heroesflorian gave you the spells you could use, TC, stun, swordrain. Otherwise bs, firestorm and black magic, together with aska to get fresh troops. Then I bet the outcome would show the ring is OP

Thanks for your engagement.

Yes, I know, theory and practice may differ. That’s why I started my post with the disclaimer that for now my opinion is based on videos, not own gameplay experience with that ring.

 

Just getting and testing the ring myself first before speculating a lot, is something I would try to do (and many others, too, I would assume), but on the live server that’s a bit harder than on a test server with dev access, I’m afraid, as one can only randomly get the ring from chests, which are a huge lottery… now, I personally am not a big fan of lottery systems but that’s off the point here…

Though, when 99.9% of all players do not have an item (or pal), nor can easily (or reliably) get it in near future while some lucky ones do have it, it is to be expected that people will want to discuss and get info about this item (or pal), and those discussions will obviously have to be based around speculations and impressions from videos mostly, because getting first-hand experience is simply not an option for the vast majority, while the impact or advantage/disadvantage caused by the item/pal in question can affect anyone.

 

Having said that, if you say you tested it properly and repeatedly, and think it is balanced, I might believe you on that for now, I guess. Just the reasoning mentioned in the previous post didn’t make much sense to me, even if the conclusion drawn after that reasoning could be correct due to other reasons.

(Stating defeat is possible is not worth too much without more details about the setup, of course. All we can do is assuming you tried with good combo and raiding skills and tactics against a beatable base, just as if you had only said “we did some testing, not OP”… and then we are back to speculating on our end.)

One thing that makes me wonder, though - if something like the skull kicking aura is not overpowered, would you say that some other items are potentially underpowered, then? (Things like the largely unpopular damage ring Rokkam come to my mind there, for example.) Would love to hear your thoughts about that.

 

@Dena4 I am not sure such a test against pure bomb/skull tower bases would be a fair test either, though. Because a typical base does not just contain those two tower types.

I mean, by drawing conclusions based on such extreme testing conditions, one could also infer that e.g. firestorm aura is OP if you test against bases full of arrow and firebolt towers and froster waves only. Then, the aura would be effective against everything in that base, and would easily kill of full waves - which is not what you’d observe on a real, “typical” defense.

I agree we do not know @FTB’s testing setups (offense/defense) and have not seen “before/after” comparisons with him raiding the same defense with and without the aura and all else same (*), and thus can only speculate on how valid or useful or relevant the testing was. But suggesting a test on some extreme, non-realistic setup only, is probably not really relevant either, in terms of deciding whether the ring is OP or not against real bases.

(* And even then, as mentioned before, “all else same” might in itself be not realistic, as the aura may change your overall strategy and setup, as well as what combinations are most/least effective in a raid with/without the aura… so what we’d need would basically be a large-scale study with 1 (or N) “typical” bases, which then get raided with a number of different setups, and all of those setups having 2 or more variants, once with the bomb kicking aura ring and once with some other ring(s)… and then note down a “success value” for every combination and check whether your average success value with the bomb kicking aura is higher than without, possibly weighted average even depending on how likely the different combos are (war boosts? rare items/pals used? easily achievable? etc) …)

So, could I just get a reply on why it would be a bad idea to make Skull Towers have bombs that can’t be kicked back, but deal less damage, please?

Any test would be unaccurate, since there is no perfect test to prove OP or not of something. My test would only proof that this aura neutralizes bomb and skull towers, that’s my point. When raiding with triple speed, the odds that any bomb hurts troops nearby hero are seriously lower due to the speed. There are all kind of influences, lower speed, wrong choice of spells, troops. Those are all to blame ourselves if we fail due to that. But we would also have lost without that ring in that case.

Well… Those bomb plus skull towers won’t do what they should do any longer to troops nearby hero plus hero itself, damage. Not even in any trap form. Without the ring hero plus troops would be gone without the correct spell and skills, now it’s a different story, at least the video proves that. So that ring influences the outcome completely.

Why did they fail during their own tests and what were the tests? Can be due to bad picked troops, spells, who knows. Would any other ring lead to a success when rest stays the same? I doubt it. So it’s likely the failures had more to do with bad picked spells, troops plus pal than with aura ring.

Let me reverse it by a counter question. Can Flothaboss give us an example where the kickback aura miserably fails and any other aura  ring succeeds with same setup and… Bomb and skull towers are serious part of the test? That would prove the ring isn’t overpowered.

I am very curious, surprise us. If you give us such an example, I will admit I am wrong and that the ring isn’t OP. Like I said including bomb plus skull towers included in the test. Sure… When bases with almost no bomb and skull tower are picked, the kickback ring is incorrect choice, but when skull or bomb tower is number one in defense, it’s not.

I agree that most tests would not be correct, but say for yourself. The spells used in that kickback video are absurd, without kickback aura the used setups have zero percent of success without that kickback aura. Also the frenzies, cannons would stand nihil chance, while with that aura makes him win the raid.

There are two mass destruction towers in the game that can’t be destroyed with just one single shot of a spell from a distance, the boosted bomb tower and the skull tower. And those are neutralized. That’s absurd.