Torches & more competitive play in top League of Titans

and normal blessings?

thx for answering.

Torches were never a factor. Only alliance level. 

oh, right. again ?. thx

so torches are realy only to determine the ranking within a leaque per season … what is then the total amount of torches (where alliances can be sorted by in the pantheon) good for?

 

had no idea about this, so it will be interesting to know if this is by design or coincidence.

 

but in titan you have a much greater chance to meet top allies. 3 out of 12 … each season. 
in lower leagues it should level out after a few seasons… i assume that is/was the plan. (someone said/complained about loops that can occur with permanent pro/demoting… but imho this should become better after a few season).

It’s used for matchmaking in league of mortals as well, and that’s it. 

It’s not by design (according to cpt Morgan), but additional inter-league matchmaking has all sorts of negative consequences, particularly in a 4 war season. I know exactly what you’re saying about competition, but from a mathematical point of view it’s not really a problem if the strongest teams finish at the top of the leaderboard each season. That’s what is supposed to happen. Interleague matchmaking (unless it’s a round robin where every alliance plays every other alliance once) could and would make it more likely that middle of the pack alliances would finish above the strongest teams (because the strongest teams would only fight each other and cancel each other out). It might be advantageous for the weaker teams, but it doesn’t mean it’s sensible. 

That’s exactly what I meant, though. There are fewer teams in titan league so the odds of one of the top 4 or 5 teams facing another one of the top teams in a 4 war season is much higher, which is why I think we’ve seen that happen every season so far. 

Maybe this discussion would be good in a different thread?

agreed, but how? can these post be mooved somewhere else (by a moderator)? what can be done to prevent highjacking threads in future … to answer in another thread? what are the rules for this - (i thought my questions where good for the devs, sorry that they where more for discussion…). since i have no idea what do do i will answer once more and hope that tomaxo (?) or infamos(?) or madlen(?) can move the posts without any big problems. sorry again for addditional work…

that is true. but also consider the other side (mathematically spoken):

for top 3 allies (since they can not matched against themselves) it is a chance of (3-1)/(12-1)=18.2%  to get paired with another of the remaining 2 top allies. once they had one match it reduces to 1/11=9%. and then thats it… maybe 2 hard fights out of 4. and if they are nearly eaqual they wont loose not a lot of torches… and the rest are “easy pie” and torch and VP gainers.

for the rest in titan league it’s worse: it is a chance of 3/(12-1)=27.3% to get paired with one of the non fightable top 3 allies for 1st war, 18.2% then and if they again face a top team still 9%… so it can happen much more often to get their a.s.s.e.s. kicked and to loose torches. and this every single season. well we even had two of top 3 allies in one war… massive pain >_< 

so… the top 3 (unless lower allies do not reorganise / merge / or help together) will always keep their positions a.t.m. but we will see what the future brings. i mean, no doubt those top 3 are top, you deserve your places… but a little bit of more competition would be great. at least you are getting more, you should do more ?. at least if it would be possible that they can face more than just 1 time against each other, to shift probability values a little bit. or something else… don’t you agreee that it must be boring for you if no one attacks you on lower islands? (i guess you did already…)

@NaN ok moved

thanks a lot tomaxo! (that was quick >_<)

There’s nothing preventing any teams from merging/getting better/getting worse/falling apart completely. A formula that would have made seasons more “fair” at the start of war seasons may not work this season, and what would make this season more “fair” may not work next season. The fact of the matter is that the strongest teams in each league seem to be regularly promoted each season (adjusting for teams which intentionally try to place in one league or another), and the strongest teams in titan league end up winning. Nothing is preventing other teams from trying to get better. There used to be 4 teams (and arguably 5) who were a step above the other teams in titan league. Right now there are 3. Next season there could be 5 again. How does your matchmaking scenario adjust for that?

d.a.m.n: i got logged out while writing >_<… i try again, some points are still there…

i dont have a formula and please i also dont say everything is bad now. i was just trying to show up what it is atm and was since the season have started (or lets say since they are gladly bugfree working).
things will change in future, for sure. maybe it gets better, maybe it gets worse. maybe it is necessary to merge (i personally realy do not like this option because it rips allies apart and is unpersonal. well it worked for some top allies, it was was a total desaster for others). maybe for the actual matchmaking it is already the best scenario and will improve when other allies raise upwards (it just takes long…) - if they don’t fall apart in the mean time… imho this is also crucial: how long can an alliance stick together and go through lows and highs until they become strong in a natural way …

in real world (i think e.g. in formula one) when a team is domination others they change rules so that other teams can compete and it is more attractive for an audiance. we dont have an audiance here, so (almost) nothing changes… ok - that was unfair: they introduced the seasons because the old system was not so optimal… (yes, we also tried to lower torches onces… we lost a lot of good and loyal members due to this. some have returned, some not. *wink, wink* ?)

to be honest: i am glad that up to now we can hold our position in titan league and this makes me also proud and imho the season system is also better than it was before. its just the question if it has reached its global optimum. or are we stuck in a local one, or on the way to one of those…

you are right. maybe the titan pool league is too small, but making it larger without tuning probabilities (which may also not be fair) the top 3 (4/5…?) will meet each other even less often. and if it is too big, maybe we fall back into the scenario that has been before seasons…

so why are the in titan leque playes 1-3 for winners when only 2 teams are promoted upwards. should then there not be only one team winning, not three. and maybe just one of those incredible chests that no one else gets. but it is hard to give up those extra war boosts…  each season also starts with 0 torches. so why not also start with zero EXTRA war boosts. and each war won as part of the season one of those blessings can be won (or playced 1,2,3 / 1,2 / 1 depending on amount of oponents) for every team that wins and and keep it till start of next season. so they kind sum up - if you win them again, no prolonging is necessary. something that gives equal chances for everyone each fresh start of a season. (but i assume this has also be discussed somewhere else. and this would then also be different to other leagues, but titan league is different…)

lets see what other opinions are out there… 

Food for thought:

In this war season GoW and CCCP fought each other in week 1, and Texas and CCCP fought in week 3. If Texas and GoW fought this war, it could potentially change 1st place but it wouldn’t have any impact on the rest of the standings. It’s been like that every season. 

this is also true: it is crucial if they meet in long wars or duels… every top team not facing in a long war has a huge advantage. so actual top 3 places also are related massively on matchmaking…

 

edit: as for evryone else too… some teams fell out of titan league due to this…

I don’t follow.

ok my bad… i assumed that when top allies meet on those 4 and 3 player maps that they attack each other. but of course they dont. they get torches from the other allies. to mark their top place. maybe one attack against each other… right?

so the „bad“ pairing is when 2 top allies meet in 1v1 maps. since they are nearly equal those two cant gain/loos torches. the third one is the lucky one who can gain torches in 1v1.

so matchmaking can have a huge impact on the position. with those 4,3,2 allie maps maybe too much influence.

any suggestions for this? (of course it can change if there where 4 top allies). may be the seasons are also too short and due to this too dependend on random positioning.

I think seasons are probably too short. 

I think Titan league is weaker than it should be because lower level teams have been manipulating torches to stay out. 

I think merges consoldate power at the top. There should be permanent buffs given to alliances that make the alliance shell more valuable and make mergers less attractive. 

But in general, if he middle of the pack alliances in Titan league want to compete for one of the top 3 spots, they probably need to think about merging. I think next season will have better competition because of that. Next season will be interesting for a lot of reasons. With the level cap increase a lower ranked team could spend its way to the top. That would be interesting. 

i find nothing to disagree to your last post.

maybe some comments: merging is not good for leagues since it always generates a kind of vaccuum where others have to suffer from this. also movings with attempts to lower torches and then come back or alliance hopping in general. this should be made much less attractive. maybe in a year or two there are some allianaces that grow naturally and have loyal members  it gets more and more interesting - we try to walk this way for a long time now and its super sool to see how members grow. some have to fight hard, but they do - and personally i like such figthers. i have the feeling that there are some alliances out there with a similar kind of thinking. of course there are also different strategies - maybe some raise lower but friendly allies to have a second team in titan league. or blocking low level players and having fewer memebers - atm of course then not competitive for place 1-3 but cant be kicked out of titan.

thanks for the discussion, other opinions of course also welcome.