Trophies: no gain/loss when not using matchmaking

Flare has to do something about the manipulation of the Leaderboard positions

It’s a well known thing by everyone and has been in the game for as long as I can remember, but lately it seems to be worse than ever, 
and at high rank it’s just a nightmare.

It’s not hard to notice accounts with the repetitive behavior of attacking the same base multiple times, but always staying on the same rank,
because they accumulate trophies but routinely “dump” them, often on a second base or an ally’s base, to elevate their rank or support them if they’re being attacked, and maintain a lower rank that allows that player to keep taking more trophies effectively.

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My suggestion for this issue would be to only allow gain or loss of trophies on raids done through regular matchmaking.

Medals, gold, xp… would stay exactly the same, but trophies would be an exclusive thing to that type of raid.

Because having to find a specific enemy base 3 times to take their trophies, and after that also find the friendly base they want to dump those trophies 3 more times, all using random matchmaking system would be a big discouragement to such behavior.
And would also stop those very low rank accounts from doing this kind of thing, because the high rank bases they currently attack to take trophies 10 by 10 on each raid would not appear on their matchmaking.

I see no point on gaining trophies on raids out of regular matchmaking, other than just purposely lower or raise a specific player rank, which is unfair and an exploit.

Totally disagree because then players would just constantly be attacking players higher than them and getting to know their base better without any consequences. I understand that it can be manipulated the way it is right now, but if this was implemented, it’d be even worse!

I think you’re on to something…

I read many times that players ask to dump some trophies on their base to participate in a higher ninja tier for example. This would prevent helping players a tier up, they probably have a hard time doing it by their own strength. So only gaining trophies by matchmaking would prevent indeed this scenario.

For conquest wars and war season wars, I don’t know if trophies should be given or not. You need to raid anyway and are limited to these bases. So there I definitely (during war raids!) would leave it like it is. But it would definitely prevent dumping trophies on an easy base of an opponent (or even better, an easy one without gate towers!) to score more skulls with cof. There are teams pushing up a player on the rank of that team and then raid that player to score more skulls. That should be prevented at all costs. I would even suggest to make it impossible to raid a player on same war/conquest map, but that’s not relevant now. 

During normal raids I am in doubt if trophies should only be determined by matchmaker. Just take current festival for example. Members of my  team are telling bases they face are completely purple, which can happen every once in a while, but not during most raids. I can confirm that most bases are abnormal strong during this festival. So in that case it would be also depending on the random matchmaking mechanism and that’s what I don’t like.

Be unfortunate and get bases of players who actually hide trophies or from lower ranked players of top teams and have a hard time to gain trophies, or be very fortunate and get players with almost no boosts or even better, players without alliance and have an easy way gaining them. So those unfortunate ones then still have regular raids to level up trophies, if that’s what they want to accomplish.

I as trophy dumper can dump many trophies by abusing that matchmaker within less than 15 minutes, gaining them back also is pretty easy (not as easy as it was before, but still doable to climb up). 

I think it’s good to have a topic to discuss trophies.

@AwesomestKnightest has a good point, regular raids should also be used to win/lose trophies. Otherwise lower players can keep raiding high level players without suffering the consequences. I would even go further during regular raids. When a player isn’t able to break the gate, he/she should get a cool down period and not be able to raid that base again for example the next couple of hours. how often I see a player raid, fail and immediately followed by a new raid, failing again. 

Since we discuss trophies here, I want a change for players who aren’t breaking the gate. They should not gain trophies at all, how often I got raids 30%- (even 2%!) against my base and see that they even gain trophies, I lost counting. Algorithm should never give trophies for a failed raid. That should definitely be changed. Offender is deciding to raid a base and his incorrect judgement should never be rewarded. It’s actually stimulating them to raid multiple times. 

Then everyone will activate a shield and you won’t be able to attack anyone via matchmaker and you’ll never gain trophies. As far as I know, shielded players never show up on matchmaker

Correct conclusion. And since a few amongst us will have that subscription for €99,- per month, those players will end up pretty high based on trophies (or face nightmare players by matchmaker in case they aren’t able to beat top players).

So regular raids also win/loss of trophies should be valid. 

It’s not like you would be forced to attack a certain base, because you can always use the New Enemy button
So, if you get bases of players who hide trophies or from lower ranked players of top teams, you could just skip them, exactly like you can do now

The consequences for lower players that raid high level players are not even that big of a deal tho
As I see it can result in these situations:

  • attacking a base that you’ll be able to defeat after some practing, and losing some trophies during the training, but quickly taking them back later
  • attacking a base that you are not strong enough to defeat yet, so you lose some trophies and just give up
  • attacking a base that is simply impossible for you to beat, but it’s so higher than your rank that you gain trophies even with just a little progress on the path

I like the no trophies when not destroying the gate idea

I literally never heard about gold shields doing anything else than protecting the gold  :huh:

And I know you can still be attacked when you have a shield activated, so you are saying all those attacks are done out of the matchmaking?

Because if that’s really a thing,
they could simply invert the situation and make it so you can only be attacked via matchmaking when a shield is activated

Protecting the trophies from lower ranked players that are abusing the system on searched raids would be a lot more useful than protecting the trophies from the enemies on matchmaking

Yes, you can still be attacked, but only outside of matchmaker. You won’t appear on matchmaker when you have an activated gold shield. That’s why many people activate a gold shield before the ninja event, so they won’t appear on matchmaker

But it’s probably best to get an answer from FG

The top10 leaderboard is fake for the most part. Most people in there are there only because they used multi accounts (or friends) to dump trophies on them.

Yes, something should be done about this.

Why did someone  should care about the trothies 

+1 on this.

 

Most games are already like that. I’m not sure why Flare thinks otherwise. If one were to play any other game that has ‘ladder’ or ‘ranked’ match, one cannot just simply match make a custom game with friends to increase one’s ranking. It must be through the ladder system that gives you a randomized opponent.

 

In fact, I think Flare should go one step even further, i.e. one either play custom match that doesn’t affect the trophies, OR, when one clicks on auto match making which is the equivalent of ‘ladder’, it will bring you into the match automatically, removing the option to skip an opponent. No other games’ ladder system has this weird function where you can skip opponents you think tough, and let you climb the ladder by allowing you to skip until you see an easy opponent. ONLY with this,  the trophy system will be more accurate of a player’s strength.

Trophies only matter in case of ninja and festival. For ninja it determines tier plus score for your team. Still that one I also would not let depend on trophies, but make it similar like conquest. 

Change the layers of trophies into tiers. You play in tier X and win 100%, you promote. When you aren’t participating or score low, you demote. Then trophies wouldn’t matter.

For me trophies really don’t matter.

 

That would be a cool idea.
However, the problem is that a win equals 6-7 trophies and a loss can go up to 65 trophies lost and the defender gets them. The imbalance is too great.

If Flare was to adopt a ladder system (which would be nice) this would need to be looked at.

 

edit: I’m at 5300 trophies right now. I went from having pretty much every single defensive boost to barely any defensive boost. Everyone beats my defense now (literaly everyone) so my medals are going down fast (700 medals right now, down from about 1050 medals 3 days ago). As a result, I went from getting 7-10 trophies in the random matchmaking, to only 3-6. It’s a pretty big drop, solely due to the lack of defensive boosts.

It has nothing to with my past offense record or opponents dificulty, it is caused solely by the recent defensive record.

I think this should be looked at by Flare.

 

Guys in the top leaderboard are getting there by having trophies dumped on them. This also makes their medals go up, which allows them much higher trophies when attacking via the random matchmaking, meaning they have an easier time increasing their trophies.

It’s a vicious cycle originated by a flawed game mechanic (trophy dumping).

They also matter to put you on top of the Leaderboard of the game,
which may seem to be just a status reward, but it comes with that really awesome medal bonus that you gain for being there
And it’s nearly impossible to defeat someone with top10 medal bonus on Leagues

Some players will always say that being there is not important, but if that’s how they think then being on the Leaderboard of any game is not important
But we still want to reach that #1 on every game we play, don’t we?

I don’t believe changing the layers of trophies into tiers would work, because there is a correct layer for each player,
and with such promote/demote system based on tiers we wouldn’t be able to choose that
So, if you’re playing on tier C and that’s the correct one for you, you’re gonna win that 100%, but then you would be promoted to a higher tier than you should be on next event
And that would case inevitable defeats on Ninja events for lower players

I like this! I like this a lot!!! 

Making the raids for trophies start automatically against randomized opponents would be a another big step against that behavior

That part I was indeed forgotten, good point. Top ranked ones get more medals, so can win leagues.

But for the rest, trophies are for show, nothing more, nothing less.

There are players like me, who have not the slightest interest to reach top. I play for fun and enjoying the game, that’s what matters to me, that others want to be at top, that’s up to them. Competition is fine, but not all have the urge to become top player. Some use a game to relax.

At my level, I have maxed all buildings and don’t really need massive amount of gems. And since I don’t want to be in top, I also don’t need to have tons of pearls plus gems. I don’t go to play a minute more to win a league. honestly I only notice at the end of a league that I did or didn’t do well.

Layer of trophies isn’t interesting, absolutely correct. For ninja event however, tiers would work much better. Score 100% and go up a tier. Eventually you end in either highest tier or in the tier that’s challenging for you. Win situation for both players and keenflare. For players to get better challenges and maybe higher rewards, for keenflare that they don’t need to give almost everyone who participates first place.

Why would it automatically be considered as a loss, not gaining 100%? Are we that spoiled that we expect nothing less than 100% during ninja event? When an event is way too hard, demotion is logical, when event is hard and don’t score 100%, players get more skilled or need better boosts. 

If trophies are deciding your Ninja tier, setting your Festival difficulty, and giving you an easier way to collect the most important currency on the game, that’s already a lot, so you can’t really say that trophies are just for show

If trophies don’t really matter to you, you have no interest on the Leaderboard (AKA the reasons why this topic was created) and don’t even commit to win Leagues,
I’m pretty sure you are the exception here
Because, usually, when people play a game that they like, and it has a Leaderboard, they want to be there on top
Winning and progressing are also part of the fun and joy, at the same proportion that losing and being stuck makes it not fun and enjoyable

That system would work well only for high level strong players that currently can’t gather enough trophies to be on the highest tier, because they would score 100% all the time until they reach top tier
For lower players, it would cause them to advance until they are not strong enough to reach that 100%. And, like I said before, inevitable defeats
That’s why the current system is better

Because, it really is a loss. If you don’t get full rewards of a higher tier then it’s not worth it to be there

Taking the current rewards as an example:
Reaching #1 place on Ruby Adept rank (5,050 - 5,299) gives better rewards then anything below #1 place on Ruby Sensei rank (5,300+)

FInishing at #1 on Ninja is very important, so being in the right tier to reach that #1 is very important too!

 

Holy ?
Sorry for the long reply

:stuck_out_tongue:

Actually it is. Right after ninja start I just dump trophies, it’s pretty easy to raise them to height of layer I want to participate and so do many others. With tiers I would be forced to play higher and that’s good to prevent players to score 100% all the time. Would be a tier higher that bad? You would be surprised how many actually would even become first in a higher tier.

Wow, I got  not first, but end in top 10 2 tiers higher. The player loses 1-2 ninjas and gets same or better rewards, even team benefits, since higher score means increased odds of winning all rewards.

I know reaching #1 is very important in ninja tier, only… when you are in medium tiers, not winning 2 tiers higher is more important than winning two tiers lower.