Trophy algorithm needs a rework

Since a few days I get 5+ raids per day by a hero level 93, while I am level 96. The player is only able to score 40-45% max and still I lose 4-12 trophies per raid. Is there any logical explanation for this, since I don’t see it in this case.

I don’t care being raided, I have a gold shield so lose no gold at all. Medals usually will also not be the reason, since 100% raids would give him more medals than max 45% of what he could get from me. I don’t need to raid him, during last season I did and had more than a minute left on his base. So his base is not strong and he offers me less than 80k gold. A weak defense of a raider should be no reason for giving him trophies and also not that he is lower in trophy range than he should be for his hero level. That he raids with uncommon spell combination is also not my fault.

Hero level 90+ who is not even able to reach the gate should not be rewarded with trophies for a raid under 50%. Instead I should gain those trophies 

 So I would like to get an explanation for losing trophies from a player raiding me who almost has same hero level, while he is raiding only 40-45%. I don’t care about trophies, but this makes no sense.

the problem is that king level goes up faster than other upgrades. I am level 88 now and usually go up levels twice a month but upgrading buildings /troops or wave sequence takes much longer proportionately. To upgrade everything one level to match my king level increases is impossible as I have to raid and therefore earn experience too fast.

And is that the fault of the defender that some players level up their hero levels to fast without paying attention to their offense and defense?  Fact is that the raider did not upgrade spells and troops like he should have done, so why should the defender be punished for that mistake? The offender is the only one who decides to raid a base, the defender has no influence on that. It’s as simple as that, the offender decides to raid and if he fails, he is the one to blame, nobody else. When you score less than 70%, you should not be rewarded at all for your mistake to raid that base. I see that as part of the strategy, being able to judge if you stand a chance against a base or not. This player knows he doesn’t stand a chance, but still keeps raiding and is even rewarded for that, while he fails heavily to succeed.

I want to emphasize the trophy amount difference. He is in trophy range 3700-3800 while I am close to 4400. Without this unfair system, he would be even lower, since he allready got over 200 trophies from me as a reward. I don’t care about trophies, but this calculation is definitely incorrect.  

I don’t know the reason why he is low in trophy range, but isn’t that his own fault and none of my business? I am not even delivered to him by matchmaking, so he decides to raid me on free will, knowing my base is way too hard for him. And what do we see? Because he is lower on trophy range (again, that is his own fault, not mine) I get negative trophies as result, thank you system for punishing me for paying attention to and strengthening my base, something what the raider ignored for a while. And as a bonus he is rewarded so that even stimulates him to raid me over and over again. When does it stop? When we both have around 4k trophies and I dropped enough due to unfair results of the trophy rob?

So can someone explain to me why I should suffer and lose trophies from players way lower in trophy range than they should be? Trophy amount of raider should not be part of the trophy algorithm at all, they should look at hero level instead alone, also spells and troops are completely his own mistake that he didn’t upgrade them, so that should be no reason for making me lose trophies after a succesful defense. With zero trophies reward I can live with, but stopping raiders with similar hero levels from beating your base, should be rewarded (no trophies robbed), not punished like it is now. I would go even further, if a raider doesn’t succeed in breaking the gate, then no negative trophies should be given to the defender, since he succeeded to defend. I would even go further, give at least one trophy to the defender after an unsuccesful raid, even when a level 1 hero should attack a level 130 king, it’s the raiders misjudgement and a failure should always be punished. 

If trophy amount is part of the formula, it is easy to abuse. Should I drop my trophies to under 2k and then raid him like crazy to make him lose a lot, just because the algorithm thinks I am much weaker than him? Easy enough to do so. Better fix this unfair calculation. Players hiding at lower levels are abusing this incorrect algorithm according to me.

 

I noticed this too and have an assumption, which may be correct or not, i don’t know: During the gold recession, when i had not enough gold for upgrades, i stayed at the same strenght level for quite some time, but nevertheless did increase the trophies over time and climbed up in the ladder. I assume, this is because Flare wants to give casual players the feeling of progress, even if they don’t really have progress. Just to stay in the game and not quit …

So you (and i sometimes, too) have to “suffer” and deliver the other side of the trophy “equation”, which means give trophies to others, who normally don’t deserve them. If it’s not too much, i’m fine with that, as long as Flare thinks, that i’m in the “right” trophy range and gives me opponents with good loot in match maker.

I’m going all in on level ups, because of the chests and CoF. Which means i use my 3 +XP items whenever i can and raid much more during events with +XP. I don’t care that my level may be too high. Because of my strategy “maxing one spell + troop combo with highest priority”, i still can beat bases of kings up to 10 levels higher than me. Not all of them, of course :grinning:

Dena by that logic no one should gain medals if they fail the base. Both trophies and medals are a prize for attempting a harder base than your own. I might attack a base worth 800 medals in the hopes of getting half so that I can win a league. For those who haven’t achieved the trophy quests I understand they do the same.

I don’t think it is fair that high players lose trophies so easily and gain them slowly but I also don’t care that much about trophies as I am in no position to challenge top rankings. Perhaps you are so I see why it bothers you.

There is no logic that a king who’s hero level is close to your own and who made wrong decisions by himself in the past not to spend attention to troops plus spells that he gets rewarded for those mistakes. I reason from point of view of the defender. The defenders base should not be punished for succesful defense against a raid from a hero near his hero level. When a much lower king is able to beat 50% he can be rewarded. And his reward is gold plus medals. Why even reward trophies for that extra, the medals plus gold give enough compensation. A hero level similar as the defender should never be rewarded with trophies while not breaking the castle gate, even not when king level 1 raids a king level 130. Defense succeeded, so why take trophies? To get them, pick opponents that you can beat in your trophy range. If you fail, you should drop, if you succeed you gain some.

Medals is something else as trophies. Maybe my base indeed gives many medals, but why keep rewarding a player who failed a dozen times on my base? He already gets medals, that is not hurting the defender at all. When the defender would have lost he could blame himself for not paying enough attention to towers, barricades plus waves. Or even better, to spend lot of time in designing a good base. There is enough logic behind my story that it’s unfair to lose trophies when the raider not even scored 50%, while he should be able to score higher.

I honestly don’t care about trophies, I even opened my base at the moment and players are more than welcome to take them all away. That is my fault to open the base and I lose just because of that decision. When I close my base again and heros way lower than my level lose, they don’t need to lose trophies, but the break even point should be more fair. Would it be fair that when for example when I lower my trophies to 2k-. Then I start to raid 4k+ players and make just 50%. Would it be fair that they lose more trophies then they should, because due to my incorrect decision I am way more lower in trophies then I should be? I don’t think so.

I lower my trophies for a couple of reasons. First to help team members, they can get gold from me, second during war season opponents sometimes make mistakes to raid me, while they don’t even stand a chance. They lose skulls. Third one is that loot is horrible at range 4200-4500. Sure I can beat players there and when I don’t break the castle gate, I see it as my mistake, so why should I be rewarded for that? I even am the one to blame when I attack a high level player who is member of top alliance (hint, boosts are way stronger) and fail miserably. Before I attack I can get all the info I need to determine that it is suicidal to raid the player.

I can check his hero level, his donation (often a hint) his alliance fiefdoms (hint for war boosts), number of members (hint for norml boost strength), check number of towers and barricades, see what kind of troops he uses to defend. All useful info that should raise red flags. Whatever my motivation is to raid a base, be it gold or medals, that has nothing to do with trophies. Trophies should be rewards for succesful knocking down the castle gate. That someone attacks for medals is his choice, you can have it all when you win. Losing trophies will at least tell the raider, hey buddy/lady you made the wrong choice. By giving even trophies after a failure you roll out a red carpet and say, it doesn’t matter that you failed, please go on and add this player to your favorites, since even when you lose, you get rewards from us and that’s a wrong signal. So yes, only when knocking down the gate, you should be rewarded. Like I said, it’s unfair to punish the defender while he did the right thing and that is preventing a raid to be succesful. Just for doing so, he or whe should not lose trophies.

I forgot to tell. The raider has several options to prevent loss of trophies. It starts with picking a base to raid. First mistake is to raid a base way out of your league. During the raid you can scroll to help you prevent the loss. I know, scrolls and resurrections cost gems plus cash, but that’s another discussion. With resurrections plus scrolls he might win, so then the defender at least gets some reward in the shape of gems.

The raider refuses to correct the situation and still should get rewarded for making several mistakes? The defender already loses gold, why should he lose trophies?

Today i was the “victim”: A king 2 levels above me got only 42%, but i lost 4 trophies. That just doesn’t seem right.

I think we are getting hung up on king level. If you are a free player king level has very little correlation to base toughness.

I think, i rushed king levels and my defense stayed behind. That would be even more of a reason to not give him trophies?! Can you please have a look, how much medals i would give to you and report it here? That’s the only measurement, i could think of: what does the toughness look like for a king of about my level …

If i’d attack you, i would only get 33 medals though. Doesn’t really help. But maybe you see more …

Mogor you offer

you offer 270 medals and 13 trophies

but that doesn’t mean it is king level. Could be your base / troop toughness compared to mine

just attacked you failed and lost trophies. Are we losing medals now as well? Didn’t get screenshot

270 seems quite a lot, that means my towers and barricades are relatively high level. Which is fine :slight_smile:

You got 26% and lost 12 trophies. Which means, Flares algorithm thinks, that your offense power is relatively high. Which is fine, i think :wink:

In contrast a king 3 levels above me raided me now and got 35%. I gained 35 trophies from that. It’s getting really mysterious :wink:

Boosts influence most of the chance of the succes raid and they influence it very much. When both defender and offender their hero level isn’t that far apart and both don’t have boosts, your spells should be enough to win the raid, no matter if all defense waves are maxed or not.

Boosts do make a lot of difference and definitely influence the outcome of the raid. Defender has the extra advantage of having the opportunity to have boosted towers and barricades (that is depending on his team, most will only boost barricades, since they can’t afford a lot of boosts at the same moment), while the offender only has boosted troops.

So boosts should infuence trophy result, together with hero level of both kings. When defense troops and buildings are boosted and raider has no boosts, that should be rewarded indeed when the offender makes a succesful raid, but I don’t think the raider should be rewarded when he/she fails. Again, it is his/her choice to raid, nobody forced him/her to do so. When he/she still decides to raid after enough red flags, then he should indeed not gain any trophies for not taking down the gate.

When the opposite is true and the offender has boosts, while the defender has not, I would make it even worse for the raider (hero level is almost same). If you don’t succeed, make him lose more trophies then now is the case. The boosts gave the raider an extra advantage, so the offender can only blame himself for losing the raid.

The outcome is also decided by the choice of spells and troops chosen by the offender. In the end it’s his/her choice to raid and by rewarding trophies from failing, players don’t learn a thing and keep raiding bases that are out of their league.

Boosts should be making part of trophy algorithm and have a major influence on it. For example tough barricades can already make a huge difference. During last war season I made use in my defense of boosted cannons, archers, barricades and frenzies. Opponents did not even come close to 40%. During recess we had only boosted barricades and drago frosters some of those war opponents still raided me and even then scored max 45%. We have two teams and I decided to lead the unboosted team next war season. Some of those same raiders now score 100% while before they max made 45%. So only two boosts can make already a world of difference. That’s why I say boosts should be part of trophy calculation, but I stay to my opinion that a non succesful raid should not reward raiders with trophies. Defense did what it should do and raider already gets rewarded by gold and medals. There is no need to punish the defender twice, he already lost some gold due to the raid.

I agree with Jack.

I was hit by a player with a low trophy count (< 2000) and scored 13%. I lost -9 trophies. Please, someone, explain the Algorithm?

 It’s better, in this case, to drop your trophies, have gems and reduced skulls in the war.

Flare needs to redo its algorithm.

 

I can confirm this: raiders used to walk through my base with 100% (no boosts), but when i came to G&M. with the barricade boost, about 50% of raiders started failing my base.

ok so we are comparing trophy counts rather than king level. King level may have nothing to do with trophy count (i.e. after trophy dropping) or base / troop toughness. I think we should investigate the trophy count differences and how they affect the algorithm.