Why Defense Ninjas aren't good as a Unit reward

As a foreword, do note that I’m speaking from the 4.000k Trophy bracket experience and do not really know how much stronger Ninjas are beyond that point.


The Ninja Event is one of the events I look most forward to, not only due to guaranteed Pearls, which are always needed and there are never enough of them, but also for the awesome ‘minigame’, which is the 30 Island progression.

However, as a Unit , Ninjas are far from being an enticing reward.

There are great and exciting special units in this game, such as the Dracomancers, who change the way you raid a base, the way you play, and that’s despite being only an empowerment to an already existing unit - because they are technically not an entirely new unit with a separate model. You bunker down, you defend them, and then you’ve a period where you rush forward with the Dragon lighting everything in flames along the path. That’s exciting, cool, and scarce enough as a War reward to feel special whenever it comes around.

From that point of view, if we’re talking how often a certain unit becomes available, Ninjas being a bi-weekly bonus, I understand why they are inherently a weaker unit than some of the War boosted ones or Pro League units are, as they’re both harder to obtain.

Let’s make another distinction - Offensive Ninjas, the ones that appear alongside you during a raid, are a far more useful Unit than their Defensive counterpart. For anyone playing this game for a decent while, the reason should be obvious - it is their short self-stun window, during which they’re completely vulnerable to 1-hit kills from various Spells. Ninjas change every 2nd week, and some of them are more durable than others (Earth Ninjas, if I recall correctly), some are melee while others are ranged, but they share a common weakness - they’re extremely easy to kill, and thus contribute nothing to your defense.

This is why I believe devs should rework how they inherently function, and here’s what I think should happen:

  • The spawn animation of Defensive Ninjas should be changed / improved.
  • Retain their spawn animation as is, but grant them invulnerability until they begin launching their teleporting attack.
  • Ninjas spawning and attacking right away will at least ensure that they actually deal some damage to the attacker, which is what they are meant to do (and currently fail to do), after all.

This is absolutely necessary in my eyes, because the currently-existing Ninjas do not provide any benefit to your castle’s defense. There are about… 5? (don’t remember) Ninja spawns as you raid enemy castles, and each one of them dies instantly, before they can contribute anything at all. This is why I’d like the devs to begin with this treatment, then proceed to monitor what kind of influence this has in terms of increasing the chances for a successful defense, and make adjustments from there, e.g. lowering their cooldown on the teleportation attack.

This is in the same vicinity of usefulness when it comes to some other buffs, like the recently mentioned Gargoyle Towers, which are also very underwhelming and are way overdue for a buff, just like a few other structures/units are. I just wanted to bring more attention to Ninjas because they are a buff that appears far more often during the month, players get to experience it more often and, as such, should really feel more rewarding than what they currently represent - being very underwhelming.

 

Ninjas are, by no means, weak. If they get killed instantly at your level, it just means that you need to go on a higher tier. High Tier Ninjas are very deadly. Most spells cannot one shot them, and they can take out your king very easily if you’re not protecting yourself properly (such as rushing in front of your units at a bad timing when opposing ninjas are spawned).

 

The problem isn’t about ninjas being weak. The problem is about getting higher tier ninjas, as some tiers are impossible to get at unless you have allies pushing you up due to the many abuse of the game that manipulates trophy count.

This is perfect proof against defensive ninjas. If only 5k+ tier ninjas are any good then what’s the point of having all lower tiers? They can be one-shot by nearly everything and they will only hurt you/your troops when you let them, e.g. by mistiming a spell. Even if you ignore them and keep going no big harm will be done either.

It’s great that high tier ninjas are deadly but it should be true for all tiers. Not as much by making higher tiers more accessible but by making lower tiers stronger.

If a base at 3k trophy has a 5600 tier ninjas, believe me, players from the 3k trophy will be the one complaining having their king one shot by ninjas instead.

True but the only thing that’d prove is that the trophy system is messed up. Ninjas available for 3k bases should be of use against 3k players and 5.6k ninjas against 5.6k players. Otherwise just have levelless ninjas that kill everything regardless of player strength for 5 seconds and disappear, that’ll make about as much sense.

Couldn’t disagree more!

What about changing the topic to “Offensive ninjas aren’t good at all”?

Before they changed the Ninja Event so you had 2 do-overs, I would have agreed…  Because I was competing at a lower tier than I should be because I wanted to ensure I got the pearl rewards.  But now that I’m competing at a more appropriate level my Ninjas are bad @ssess!

Actually, offensive ninjas are excellent in every tier (at least certain types). I kicked many a butt with poison ninjas in the paladin infested lower levels and flame ninjas take down fire sensitive towers nicely. While for defensive ninjas it’s either max level or nothing.

Hmm, come to think of it, offensive ninjas might be the tool of choice for lower levels/tiers and defensive ninjas for higher levels/tiers.

Actually fire ninjas were good last time, but they still run ahead and activate skull towers and make wolves howl, thus ruining trategic moves like use Blizzard on them before they affect my raid greatly

At least one person who understands - thank you.

I do realize that acquiring torphies is, undoubtedly, the underlying problem behind Ninja’s strength (you hit first trophy block at 3.5k, then at around 4k, then you can eventually go to 4.5k but anything beyond that takes incomparably more time than anything before, and way too many pearls as well), but even if we take that away, all Ninjas up to 4k Trophy tier die to mostly anything in 1 shot when your base is raided by enemies within an equal trophy range.

You did answer yourself - that is the issue indeed. I would love to go to 4.5k Trophy tier, but it currently takes too much time to do so, all that progress is fairly easily lost during War (always happens if you’re in the top 10 of your alliance), and the amount of Pearls required to upgrade your base high enough to actually get a decent % of people failing it is also too high.

Plus, my Alliance not having all the boosts related to Alliance Level yet is also, obviously, not helping here, so there really isn’t much I can do at this point.

Anyway, my point was that if they don’t have the desired to do a full re-balancing of the torphy and Ninja tiers, then they at least should do something about Ninjas in each tier themselves, boosting their effectiveness (up to 4k trophy bracket). And if Ninjas at 4.5k+ trophies are so very deadly, then I can’t really say anything to this except to believe you, but if this is true, then the discrepancy between the very last few Ninja tiers is rather painfully big - and the state of things just shouldn’t be that way.

why do you think you (or anyone else) should have a higher level ninja than your defense / offense / time allows?

I want +300 forged everything, plus 20 of each max level every tower, barricade, blockade obstacle, but it currently takes too much time to do so. So my point is since most people cannot do this either, they should at least make low forged and low level versions as powerful as the +300 forged max level stuff. This would be much better than just making the ninja’s more deadly.

anyway, most towers and units at 3k bases are not that deadly, so non-deadly ninjas fit right in. Makes no sense to have strong ninjas in weak bases.

I do not think that. Don’t believe I’ve ever said that.

Sure, that makes sense. However, I’m advocating for Defense Ninjas being more useful in each of their respective tiers. Even if Flare would give them invulnerability status prior to their first attack, to ensure that teleporting attack does go off before they’re instantly killed off by a Blizzard spell etc., these Ninjas at 3-4k trophy ranges would still not flat out kill your King/Queen and probably not any units either, but hey - at least they would deliver some guaranteed damage and give your towers a chance to finish some units off.

Hope you see the difference and the benefit of that, compared to how useless Defense Ninjas are now below 4k Trophies.

but that is what you are saying. You want ninjas that are stronger than they should be (ie equivalent to higher level ninja) at a lower level.

sounds like they are useful if you are using an blizzard (or any other) spell straight away on them before they can attack.

You could say the same about many units, eg wolfs, are you going to say boosted wolves are useless since they are killed off instantly by blizzard before they can do anything? Don’t think so. And even worse wolves can be killed off cross lane.

 

I think defense Ninjas shouldn’t be changed. If by any chance you give them invulnerabilty at spawn, then High Tier players will probably cry of injustice.

But I think you should also look at it from another pov. Indeed low tier player have weaker Ninjas and with certain spells you can one shot them. But e.g. if people raid with TC and BS and you have Poison Ninjas, both of these spells cannot insta kill them, which in turn makes them useful. The point is, Ninjas are strong or weak depending on the spells you use. Furthermore if you for instance use your blizzard to kill Ninjas and 2 seconds later a wolf comes around you are definetly screwed, if you don’t raid with TC. Or blizzard is not ready for incoming Skull towers. Using Spells to either kill Ninjas or make yourself more vulnerable to incoming base defense is also a choice you have to take. I think in this regard it is not that bad.

I am yet to run into this issue personally. A single Wolf’s howl, due to a missed or an earlier cast Blizzard - at least in my ~4k Trophy bracket - has never wrecked my entire Army. Sure, you’ll lose some units, but it’s never a disaster of the magnitude you’re trying to infer here (vel being literally “screwed”).

It depends on where you encounter it. If it is around a couple of skull towers then you will probably lose more than just “some” units. Or when there are a couple of LT’s your troops will be perma stunned and the damage isn’t something to just laugh at.

Well if there is just a couple of enemy troops around then it truly is no big deal. But as I said it depends on the situation.

At least with Wolves you have the option to eventually have them ‘outlevel’ the damage a Blizzard can do (perhaps unless you specifically spec into it via gear perks), and not die in one hit, which is near-impossible with Ninjas, at last up to 4k Trophy bracket.

But I don’t think this is a fair comparison you’re making here, because all the regularly-available units in the game are not special in any way; they are our bread and butter, whereas Ninjas are a ‘festive’, truly Special Unit that comes as a reward from an in-game Event, which in itself is only available bi-weekly. Just based on that distinction alone I would like to see Ninjas do more via the mentioned means of forced invulnerability right after they spawn, ensuring they get at least 1 guaranteed attack and not be completely useless.

At any rate, even if you disagree with the solution I’m presenting here, I think we can both agree that there is a balance issue with this unit, particularly in the lower Trophy ranges, at the very least. And that is something Flare should look at.

you’ve swayed me. Ninjas are a bonus unit, that you can get without having to spend any morale points / select on def. and possibly many people under 4k base are not in alliances that can get the ninja defense regularly. Given you are adamant you use a spell on them straight away, signals that they are too strong under 4k. No other unit at 4k demands this instant attention from a spell, not even wolves according to you. Therefore the ninja definitely needs to be nerfed under 4k, so as not to give undue advantage to players that have them.

Agree ninja’s according to what you are saying, are overpowered at 4k, unless you can let me know any other unit which demands a spell on it to kill it within 1s. Let alone one that is ‘free’ and you don’t need to select in waves. I did previously agree with everyone else that they seemed balanced, but you have swayed me, they are overpowered. I know you think otherwise, but if you stop to read what you are writing you would agree. No other unit is that strong it needs to be killed instantly at lower levels, except for the ninjas you describe. And if you say they don’t need to be killed instantly, and you let them just attack, well then your problem is solved also since originally you are complaining they are useless as they don’t even get to attack.

I was actually going to say that no, it is the opposite - they’re more of an annoyance than a real threat. They’ll kill a couple of your weak units perhaps, like Archers (or high-health unit that happen to be low on health at the time Ninjas begin teleporting) and that’s it. The only time they are actuallly threatening is if you are silly enough to approach their spawn range while being at ~10% or less health with your King/Queen, but I don’t know why would anyone do that, as mostly you either have Monks on your side or at least the Shield Spell as an alternative, which further nullifies the Ninja’s effectiveness.

Not sure where you’ve got that from - I firmly believe you should always Blizzard Wolves as they approach you, before letting out their howl, if possible.

I get what you’re saying - it does seem only logical to label them overpowered, or at least threatening enough if one seems to think they ‘demand’ an instant kill on sight, but I really don’t think they do. As mentioned previously, as long as you manage your health properly and are surrounded by a couple of units, Ninja’s teleport-attack’s damage spreads across all of them, never really being an actual threat (your King will get like ~5% health removed). Point being, with proper play, so to speak, meaning reaching each of their spawn points in high health, they really represent no threat at all, so if one otherwise gets destroyed by a handful of these Ninjas, it means the error has been made elsewhere, earlier in the run, allowing onself to get low enough on Health or allowing most of their units to die prior to reaching the Ninja spawn point - whichever the case may be.