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8 minutes ago, Infamous said:

Also, I assume what is another source of frustration for us is that some lvl 126 can casually swing by and take 25 trophies. Okay, happens. Then I get Mani visiting me for 3... He is a good player, so why is he down where I am with his 11k+? And the question which comes from it is... why dont I get a chance to pay Mani a visit? Cause I would 100% fail? Probably true, but if he has a chance to visit me, I should have a chance to visit him too. So far he has been in my logs 4 times, I havent seen him ever. In fact, I havet seen anyone above 7 for the past 2 month. This is the "cap" we are talking about, the fact we cannot attack higher trophy holders after we reach our level "limit". 

I have players who are right in my "range" who I just never see. I see Mani all the time, but I never see Alysea (who runs Mani), and I pair much more closely with Alysea than I do with Mani.

This is how random number generators work.

But yeah, you would fail famously (or infamously) on Mani's defense, so don't worry too much.

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15 minutes ago, Infamous said:

Also, I assume what is another source of frustration for us is that some lvl 126 can casually swing by and take 25 trophies. Okay, happens. Then I get Mani visiting me for 3... He is a good player, so why is he down where I am with his 11k+? And the question which comes from it is... why dont I get a chance to pay Mani a visit? Cause I would 100% fail? Probably true, but if he has a chance to visit me, I should have a chance to visit him too. So far he has been in my logs 4 times, I havent seen him ever. In fact, I havet seen anyone above 7 for the past 2 month. This is the "cap" we are talking about, the fact we cannot attack higher trophy holders after we reach our level "limit". 

Yeah bro @Infamous Mani is she not he and a very strong player and trust me you don't want to mess with her base.Her hero ' statue resistance are at 90%(When I say resistance I mean all five elemental resistance).But yeah I got your points I have never met a player that can give me above 15+ trophies and those who can have are playing at much higher level than me and with all divine blessings and with more than 8k enchantments 😂😂😂😂.So yeah those battle demands my all attention.so else I will end up losing 10 trophies even If I take down hero and all structures but not gate of Apollo.

(By the way guys @Infamous and @Neptune both of you have attacked my base😂)

Edited by HOLYDIVINE

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5 minutes ago, dumpster said:

I have players who are right in my "range" who I just never see. I see Mani all the time, but I never see Alysea (who runs Mani), and I pair much more closely with Alysea than I do with Mani.

This is how random number generators work.

But yeah, you would fail famously (or infamously) on Mani's defense, so don't worry too much.

Yes The game is filled so many random elements that I have no idea what to say about it.Like I can't see the reason why level 114 or above are using so many gems to defeat my hero statue (well I am only at level 97 now)or barricades,just to save thier trophy losses I guess(because those guys have more 7500 trophies while I have only 6500) or spamming invocations at gate of Apollo in last few seconds or using dragon tooth near my hero statue All these things are too confusing for me🤔

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12 minutes ago, dumpster said:

I have players who are right in my "range" who I just never see. I see Mani all the time, but I never see Alysea (who runs Mani), and I pair much more closely with Alysea than I do with Mani.

This is how random number generators work.

But yeah, you would fail famously (or infamously) on Mani's defense, so don't worry too much.

I dont mind using 200 gems to win that just for the sake of winning it though... and I have a Perseus I can cap for 4 resistances :). Would come down to me moving fast enough to outrace the wave heading to portal

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1 minute ago, HOLYDIVINE said:

Yes The game is filled so many random elements that I have no idea what to say about it.Like I can't see the reason why level 114 or above are using so many gems to defeat my hero statue (well I am only at level 97 now)or barricades,just to save thier trophy losses I guess(because those guys have more 7500 trophies while I have only 6500) or spamming invocations at gate of Apollo in last few seconds or using dragon tooth near my hero statue All these things are too confusing for me🤔

Some people have a million gems and just use a lot of them in every battle to get through as fast an as easily as possible. They're not necessarily even bad players, they just can't be bothered to take the time to do it another way.

Just say thank you!

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2 minutes ago, Infamous said:

I dont mind using 200 gems to win that just for the sake of winning it though... and I have a Perseus I can cap for 4 resistances :). Would come down to me moving fast enough to outrace the wave heading to portal

I know close to max level players who bomb out on Mani, even using gems.

A revenge feature where you could attack-back people who hit you might be cool though.

BUT BEWARE:  Players who grind a lot would REALLY, REALLY, REALLY open themselves up to getting hit for -25 even more than they currently are, because there would be one less random element keeping you from being matched with players. In fact, there would be no randomness at all to it. The majority of players you hit for -3 would suddenly be able to whack you back for -25.

Edited by dumpster

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i wake up with higher trophy today , what happen I always loss a lot  ,my defense was upgrade to the highest possible upgrade , always % loss in my record , but now there is a lot of player lowest given me a lot of extra trophy 

the difference was my alliance activated all  divine blessing resulting the boost of all unite and tower making my defense stronger 

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after my alliance divine blessing went out :

TgvHs5e.jpg

 

my defense was max out for my current  level 

-204 trophy loss in 6 hours , what the point of the 3 trophy win in each battle :D

this game need upgrade in trophy system , why not implement trophy system similar  to clash of clan ? , i don remember the game system very well but it was more balanced 

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Hi all,

Around 2 years ago, we had a similar system to some of the proposed changes here. We stopped people being able to lose so many Trophies when their defense was beaten, but allowed them to lose quite a few if they failed a defense. We had this for about a week, and then the next two months were spent carefully and slowly repairing a broken leaderboard, where the top player was a level 10 player who farmed players around their level, did 300 battles a day, never spent a Gem, never lost a match, and rarely had many Trophies taken away. They hit something like 18,000 Trophies, where the nearest player behind had 10,000. They couldn't even be attacked by the poor players who were at the top Ascension Level.

Another option which resulted in similar situation was ensuring that lower level players beating higher level players gained a bonus, or higher level players attacking someone below them in level didn't gain as many Trophies. This meant that those who played more and had a higher Ascension level had a disadvantage, and essentially created an inverse leaderboard with the highest level players having something in the order of -5000 Trophies.

Just a couple of examples of why the system as it is is currently a very stable, carefully tweaked system. You can get ahead of the pack, but if you do, you can expect it to get harder to maintain your position. It cannot remain the same difficulty regardless of where you are on the leaderboard. The higher you go, the harder you fall. Inversely, if you drop down, it will become easier, the rewards will be less, but you won't lose as many trophies or be attacked as much. 

The more Trophies you have, the more desirable you are. The more desirable you are, the more you are attacked.

It is the same for all players.

In the same way that whenever you get 25 Trophies from someone, and get happy that you're not just getting 3 every battle,  despite being lower on the leaderboard, someone else has just lost those 25 Trophies, because they happen to have more than you.

If there is no difficulty increase to keeping your Trophies when gaining more, you will very soon end up (as we have had in the past) with players who are 10000 Trophies ahead of the nearest competitor. It happens within the course of a week or two.

As I recently mentioned, we will likely not change much, if anything, about the current Trophy system, other than to draw the focus away from it, whilst still making it meaningful.

I hope these insights help you guys understand a little more why these things have not had drastic changes made to them in quite some time (although within the last year we have also made several tweaks to the system based on your feedback and statistical analysis). Also that it helps you to understand what you are suggesting in a harsher light and always look for the potential exploits and negatives, and not just the positives. Remember, there will always be players who do 200 battles a day, just as there will always be players who try to break or exploit any rule you implement.

That said, keep the feedback coming!

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@CaptainMorgan if you do not understand that a person who does 200 attacks a day deserves more, instead of a person who connects every 3 days just to make updates, then it is useless to keep talking. Why does a person have to spend money on improving heroes if you do not then go ahead as the trophies he earns in a week make them lose in a day? I imagine that with the new version there will be improvements in the wars for "high lvl" alliances and if you do not understand that you have to take care of the players and the lower alliances who want to grow and for this spend money then keep those 4 high alliances and the 200 players that there are in there and good luck

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14 minutes ago, vasudeva1 said:

@CaptainMorgan if you do not understand that a person who does 200 attacks a day deserves more, instead of a person who connects every 3 days just to make updates, then it is useless to keep talking. Why does a person have to spend money on improving heroes if you do not then go ahead as the trophies he earns in a week make them lose in a day? I imagine that with the new version there will be improvements in the wars for "high lvl" alliances and if you do not understand that you have to take care of the players and the lower alliances who want to grow and for this spend money then keep those 4 high alliances and the 200 players that there are in there and good luck

Unless they make it like... once you get 1/2 attacks of 25, then no one else could find you in the map for 25, just the 3pts for the rest of the day, so basically the loss will be reduced a lot and only the lucky ones will get 25. 

Just an idea.

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22 minutes ago, Neptune said:

Unless they make it like... once you get 1/2 attacks of 25, then no one else could find you in the map for 25, just the 3pts for the rest of the day, so basically the loss will be reduced a lot and only the lucky ones will get 25. 

Just an idea.

hello @Neptune, I do not know, but in the first screen you can see 3 attacks of 25 in less than 40 minutes and in the second even 3 attacks of 25 in less than 20 minutes of which 2 attacks made by the same player

sistema schifoso7.PNG

sistema schifoso8.PNG

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2 hours ago, vasudeva1 said:

@CaptainMorgan if you do not understand that a person who does 200 attacks a day deserves more, instead of a person who connects every 3 days just to make updates, then it is useless to keep talking. Why does a person have to spend money on improving heroes if you do not then go ahead as the trophies he earns in a week make them lose in a day? I imagine that with the new version there will be improvements in the wars for "high lvl" alliances and if you do not understand that you have to take care of the players and the lower alliances who want to grow and for this spend money then keep those 4 high alliances and the 200 players that there are in there and good luck

It's true that this is perceived as us punishing active players, but this is simply the increased difficulty in maintaining a high Trophy count because of the increased competition. If you have less Trophies, there is less competition, anything else would not really make sense. Active players have more trophies, so active players have more to take away, and are more desirable to be attacked. 

The important part of that is "active players have more Trophies".

If players don't want as many Trophies, they can stop earning them. This doesn't however mean that not so active players should be punished and continue losing 25 every time they are attacked, otherwise those players will have negative Trophies (as happened in the past). 

Just to be clear: we have in the past reduced the amount of times you can be attacked for large amounts of Trophies. It broke the game.

The player who is taking 21 Trophies from you is someone who has less Trophies than you. That's why they get more for beating you. It cannot be the case that someone with more Trophies loses less when attacked, this will break the game. The important part is you have more Trophies, which is what you are aiming for, you just can't have infinitely more.

The problem is not how the Trophy system works as such, the problem is that it is such a focus, and that it should not be the #1 point of reference for player progress and ability, as this means it hurts a lot when you lose a lot of Trophies.

tl;dr If you want to lose 25 Trophies less often, reduce the amount of Trophies you have.

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@CaptainMorgan, have you tried allowing players with more trophies (vas, me in the past, etc) to attack players with even more trophies? I can somewhat understand the system that matches trophies to skill (downright bs in my opinion due to it being a VERY simple and inaccurate approximation of all the factors affecting "skill"), but what burdens me still is why Mani can attack me and I cannot attack Mani? The filter clearly works one way here and this is something I absolutely despise. At the moment, it really feels like a freaking roadblock instead of modified difficulty filter, as for MONTHS I havent seen a single opponent above 8, and those of 4-8 I celebrate as a highlight of A MONTH. This kind of "equal but separate" approach is the root of all our complaints imo... Maybe also that any whippersnapper of a high enough level can use 18 gems to blast you for 25 trophies, of which you only extract 6 gems, completely devaluating the said gem bonus in comparison to the amount I, for instance, need as a lvl 110 player. All of that not to mention the frustration one gets while comparing the usefulness of bonuses granted by trophy ranks and the said 6 gems "complement".

And I dont mind if lvl 70 attacks me, invoes, and takes 25 trophies, this would at least make trophies a good representation of skill and not the relative amount of time spent playing OR.

 

ALTERNATIVELY

Have you tried setting the use of invocations as an automatic limit that would prevent the attacker from getting more than 3 trophies? This doesnt concern levels per say, but may achieve just what we want... Either you go hard and get 25 or go easy and get the 3 trophies you really deserve.

 

P.S.

Check your pm whenever you get a chance :).

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There is no "filter" which prevents you attacking Máni. It's just important to remember that, as Dumpster mentioned elsewhere, if there are 5000 players below you, within +-5 Ascension Levels of you, and (just example numbers) 50 above you. You won't find someone above you very often. 

We can't simply allow everyone to attack players above them; this will allow not just you, but 100,000 other players to attack them, so the person in the top position would be being attacked by thousands of players each day. In that same vein, the 100,000 players below you will now also get you rolled more often, so you will have 100,000 greedy 25 Trophy monsters attacking you.

Máni gets you rolled more often because she has a much, much smaller pool of players to be matchmade with, and we have systems in place which prevent players being matchmade with the same person too often in a row. This means once she's hit one person, she moves onto the next, and eventually you have a chance to come up. The alternative would be not to let Máni play any more after X battles.

That said, if you were to beat everyone in your matchmaking range, eventually you will be virtually guaranteed a battle with Máni.

Using anonymous numbers here, it's important to remember that the top players in the game play well over 150 battles per day. Sometimes even 4x that number. They go through a lot of players. They also never, ever get more than 3.

Again the solution here is: if you want to attack more people with more Trophies than you, you need to have less Trophies.

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9 hours ago, Asd0011 said:

@Infamous, I get Mani every once in a while on my map with 25 attractive trophies, specially when my strong heroes are at war -_-, and later she takes revenge on me as well by autoplaying my whole defense :angry:

Her defence and her Gatekeeper both are weak .. She is Lucky to have unique so she can go on full auto mode allowing her to get more trophies in lesser time ...😪

In addition her alliance is at top giving her advantage of boosted blessing..

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9 hours ago, NAPC said:

Her defence and her Gatekeeper both are weak .. She is Lucky to have unique so she can go on full auto mode allowing her to get more trophies in lesser time ...😪

In addition her alliance is at top giving her advantage of boosted blessing..

Màni is a strong player for her lvl and she was even before finding the unique item, you too have the unique item for Prometheus so use it and stop complaining

Edited by vasudeva1

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6 minutes ago, vasudeva1 said:

Màni is a strong player for her lvl and she was even before finding the unique item, you too have the unique item for Prometheus so use it and stop complaining

Did I complained .?? 

Yes i do have Prometheus usless unique.. I only said she does auto play because she have OP cooldown .. 

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Also unlike high level players who have to fight the very strong defenders and defenses, opponents are fairly easy for a level 117...

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By the way she's playing for gold rather than trophies nowadays and I think her defense is also not so weak considering how low time limit it has. .........And I should admit your defender is strong @NAPC

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2 hours ago, Asd0011 said:

By the way she's playing for gold rather than trophies nowadays and I think her defense is also not so weak considering how low time limit it has. .........And I should admit your defender is strong @NAPC

True.. Defence is not too weak but considering that she is also at top she needs to upgrade.. 

Her Gatekeeper is Decent .. I have faced lvl 112-113 players which where really hard to kill.. 

You meet with my Persues.??

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