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cr1

Guaranteed ninja

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they can only do real balance if scrolls removed, or are made much weaker.

currently anything that can be beat without scroll is going to be 'too easy' for top players who will just scroll.
requiring heavily using scrolls to win will just ends in tears again.

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2 hours ago, cr1 said:

You not right. 5600 tier is full of players like me from APO, RL, VL,Todes.

i want event, which would be hard as hard to get 5600 tier. Else its like a bad joke.

have no mind to make gap between VL and others, its useless i think.

and i spended pnly 6 scrolls on whole islands. The joke is you even no need so much scrolls to win this event.

 

 

If you want it harder, than don't use scrolls! :)  This isn't Cromka1RR2 (yet).

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10 minutes ago, neilr81 said:

If you want it harder, than don't use scrolls! :)  This isn't Cromka1RR2 (yet).

I didnt tell my opinion is only true here. I just share my problem.

 

Game there everything is easy- not an interesing game

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8 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

There are lots of things that can be improved to make the game better and more enjoyable.

I don't think eliminating scrolls from the ninja event would be one of them.

I agree there are lots of things that can be improved to make the game better.

But I'll have to disagree with the second part, I think moving towards balancing the game would make the game more enjoyable.
Obviously people who scroll to win may not enjoy them being removed, but in general improving balancing in games make them more enjoyable.

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One thing they should change is buying the ninjas. You can be the crappiest raider on earth, but still you can get all 5 ninjas without getting the perfect score, or without participating at all. But that probably won't happen, since they want money

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I agree with @cr1, the ninja attacks should be made slightly harder, but the thing is, if flare makes it too hard it'll look really pitiful if come crawling back to them again asking to make it easier because they made it "too hard", or in other words "impossible" (like doing good in the Pro League lol)

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11 minutes ago, AwesomestKnightest said:

yes, if you don't get all 5. 70 gems a piece last I saw, which was quite a while ago. Almost 7 months

Hmm, that's actually kinda cheap. Or not as expensive as I'd expect.

Wonder where I haven't looked all this time to have never noticed. :wacko:

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31 minutes ago, JiggleFizziks said:

Hmm, that's actually kinda cheap. Or not as expensive as I'd expect.

Wonder where I haven't looked all this time to have never noticed. :wacko:

It's probably higher for different levels of ninjas. That was like level 3 or 4 that was 70 gems. And when you go to the Attack Setup right before you attack, you'll see a box with 5 ninja spaces at the top left. Click that if you don't have all 5 and you can buy them!!

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8 hours ago, AwesomestKnightest said:

I agree with @cr1, the ninja attacks should be made slightly harder, but the thing is, if flare makes it too hard it'll look really pitiful if come crawling back to them again asking to make it easier because they made it "too hard", or in other words "impossible" (like doing good in the Pro League lol)

not really a big deal for ninja, if its too hard you can easily drop a tier.

The issue remains, ninja is already a pretty good balance at end levels, thats why top tier players are scrolling a little. Issue is once they scroll its too easy.
The game should never be balanced upon making it hard while scrolling, ie force players into scrolling.

Requiring a scroll or two to ensure 100%, or maybe just miss out if you don't scroll, thats pretty much what balanced offence vs defence should be.

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13 hours ago, JiggleFizziks said:

Hmm, that's actually kinda cheap. Or not as expensive as I'd expect.

Wonder where I haven't looked all this time to have never noticed. :wacko:

If your ninjas are low-mid tier, 70 gems each is very expensive.

But if your ninjas are the 5000+ trophies ones, they're a pretty good deal. Those ninjas are tough and can kill you if you're not careful.

 

10 hours ago, Fourofjacks said:

Requiring a scroll or two to ensure 100%, or maybe just miss out if you don't scroll, thats pretty much what balanced offence vs defence should be.

Or even 3, or 10.

Getting a perfect 100% can not be the point where you define if something is balanced or not.

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) any ninja tier can be done by a strong enough player, scroll free, if destroying the portal is your main focus and you pay no attention to gate towers. That's balance.

If even destroying the portal becomes such a big task without scrolling, then you have a dificulty level that is unbalanced and/or too high.

Edited by ARREBIMBA

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14 minutes ago, ARREBIMBA said:

If your ninjas are low-mid tier, 70 gems each is very expensive.

But if your ninjas are the 5000+ trophies ones, they're a pretty good deal. Those ninjas are tough and can kill you if you're not careful.

Is it 70 gems for every tier?

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100 gems each in the top tiers (from memory).

I think the difficulty is about right if Level 130 Cromka1 uses 6 scrolls to get a perfect score.  If they did mess with the difficulty, than the current 1st place rewards should be given for much further down placing, and first place gets even better rewards.

As it is, I'm guessing the ninja event offers a good reward vs. gem for most people to participate and spend gems (and looking at the leader boards, most players do compete in it).  For those that want the challenge of being number 1, then pro-league is there for them.

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37 minutes ago, neilr81 said:

100 gems each in the top tiers (from memory).

I think the difficulty is about right if Level 130 Cromka1 uses 6 scrolls to get a perfect score.  If they did mess with the difficulty, than the current 1st place rewards should be given for much further down placing, and first place gets even better rewards.

As it is, I'm guessing the ninja event offers a good reward vs. gem for most people to participate and spend gems (and looking at the leader boards, most players do compete in it).  For those that want the challenge of being number 1, then pro-league is there for them.

Be honest bro- in top tier all players are  like me.

so 6 scrolls on whole 30 islands its a joke.

and yes it would be better if it woulf be hard for all or have limit of scrolls for whole group of islands. No need everyone doing perfect, if even none do- it would be winner too

 

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15 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

Or even 3, or 10.

Getting a perfect 100% can not be the point where you define if something is balanced or not.

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) any ninja tier can be done by a strong enough player, scroll free, if destroying the portal is your main focus and you pay no attention to gate towers. That's balance.

If even destroying the portal becomes such a big task without scrolling, then you have a dificulty level that is unbalanced and/or too high.

by "maybe just miss out" i mean, maybe, not always not get 100, but theres a chance if you don't play well you might just miss out getting 100%

When it is so close, a scroll or two will ensure 100%, eg something like timewarp will save you many seconds.

requiring 3 or 10 scrolls to ensure means it is not close to being balanced.


getting 100% should definitely be what balance should be based around.
If you balance only on killing the gate, then it will be too hard when there are strong gate towers requiring scrolling vs 'easy' attacks when no gate towers.
that is not balanced.

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9 hours ago, Fourofjacks said:

Getting 100% should definitely be what balance should be based around.

If you balance only on killing the gate, then it will be too hard when there are strong gate towers requiring scrolling vs 'easy' attacks when no gate towers.
that is not balanced.

Victory should always be the standard (and I'm already streching alot with this), not a perfect victory, however annoying it might be to your goals.

If you can't achieve victory (aka destroying the gate) then you should drop a level or scroll to keep punching above your weight.

 

9 hours ago, Fourofjacks said:

by "maybe just miss out" i mean, maybe, not always not get 100, but theres a chance if you don't play well you might just miss out getting 100%

When it is so close, a scroll or two will ensure 100%, eg something like timewarp will save you many seconds.

requiring 3 or 10 scrolls to ensure means it is not close to being balanced.

If a base can be done 99% scroll free, that's a balanced base. If it can be done 98% scroll free it is still a balanced base.

You cannot defend a system where everyone gets 1st place regardless. That's just wrong.

Edited by ARREBIMBA

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4 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

Victory should always be the standard (and I'm already streching alot with this), not a perfect victory, however annoying it might be to your goals.

If you can't achieve victory (aka destroying the gate) then you should drop a level or scroll to keep punching above your weight.

when balancing we are obviously talking about when you are fighting at the 'correct' level for your weight.
You don't balance for when you are attacking things you can farm with gold gear, or when you are punching above your weight requiring scrolls.

and when fighting any part of this game at the correct weight level, you should be able to get 100%

4 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

If a base can be done 99% scroll free, that's a balanced base. If it can be done 98% scroll free it is still a balanced base.

 

I don't disagree completely, that goes somewhat with what i am saying. But you should also be able to do 100% scroll free if you play well, but not 100% easily with 30s spare/ every can do, hence why i say you might miss 100% and get 99 or 99% if you make mistake.

If the best player in the rr2 world, with the best gear, does a completely flawless run and can not get 100%, best he is able to do is 99% or 98% without scrolls, then no that is not a balanced base. 

4 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

You cannot defend a system where everyone gets 1st place regardless. That's just wrong.

why is it wrong? it is obvious thats the direction they are taking to get more people to get 1st place. 
ninja maybe in the past were more of a competition, they are obviously not anymore, especially now they give players double chances to get 100% first place.
I am sure one reason they did this was to have more people get max rewards, along with the removal of coins from cof.

PL is where the competition is.

festivals are also aimed so everyone gets to win a festival chest everyday. basically everyone is coming 1st place there too, unless you think that is just wrong as well?
 

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Festivals are not a competition, so I don't think the comparison makes much sense.

PL is the harder competition in the game. Very few players get to end up 1st, and that's fine. I have no problem with PL (even though it is lacking in fairness).

 

Regarding ninja I also have no problem with more people finishing in 1st place. It's fine by me. I actually think most people are in a lower tier than they could be for a multitude of reasons (it's easier during the event, getting to higher tiers is very problematic in some cases, or maybe you don't want to get your trophies up for some other reason, etc). The 2 extra tries just makes it even more evident.

 

But going back on where we really disagree: the 99% vs 100%.

Have you ever been in a raid where you have to leave your army behind and just rush the gate to destroy it and forget the gate towers? If you can do that (in a good raid with few mistakes), I consider that balanced.

Gate towers are basilisk towers mostly. They take almost 5 seconds to destroy, each. So that's 10 seconds + the time you spend running from one side to the other + even more time trying to prevent your army from destroying the game. All things considered we're talking of almost 20 seconds playing around the gate.

You cannot expect to you have 15-20s to spare playing around near the gate. That's too much, imo.

 

ps: I think the gate tower thing is just a bad design choice by the developers (although I bet it's worth a lot of gems/money). If those didn't exist, then we'd be in agreement regarding the 100% victory standard.

Edited by ARREBIMBA

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17 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

Festivals are not a competition, so I don't think the comparison makes much sense.

ninja's are not really a competition either. As you say, who designs a competition with the aim of >90% people coming 1st place.
Its not a competition, even though their are rankings.

 

17 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

Have you ever been in a raid where you have to leave your army behind and just rush the gate to destroy it and forget the gate towers? If you can do that (in a good raid with few mistakes), I consider that balanced.

yes, as you say, with a few mistakes rushing gate its balanced if you need to rush the gate. without mistakes if you can get 100% then it is balanced. If i make no mistakes and still cannot get 100% then it is not balanced, or I am hitting above my weight. This whole game (assume no trophy manipulation) top 100 should be balanced around all being able to get 100% against each other. 100-200, same, 200-300 same. rank 1000-1500 hit each other 100%.

If top 100 cannot no matter how well they play get 100% against each other without scrolling, then it is not balanced.

gate towers are part of the game, and the game needs to be balanced around them.
as you say, it is 15-20s required to kill them, more if you want to scream back to make sure your army doesn't kill gate.
so you cannot ignore them when balancing attack and defense, if you balance the game around just bringing down the gate / 99%, then you are forcing people to scroll to get 100% not matter how well they play and that is not right nor balanced.

conversely what you are saying is that, your version of balanced is that everyone has to scroll to get 100%. that's not how it should be.

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17 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

Have you ever been in a raid where you have to leave your army behind and just rush the gate to destroy it and forget the gate towers? If you can do that (in a good raid with few mistakes), I consider that balanced.

Yes I do this sometimes, mainly when army is caught fighting a tough beast and I don't have much time. Many times I get 100%

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I rush gate when I'm running out of time but that usually happens when I hit a base too strong for my setup/ability and run out of time. I also rush to kill the gate towers before my army gets there and ruins things but that's another issue. Btw maybe gate towers should be destroyed when the gate falls if their health is below 10% or so. I'm not sure if getting 99% instead of 100% when you're actually fighting against the game itself rather than just the base design is a such a fair thing.

Gate towers are more of a nuisance than an actual defense design, I think. Since they make use of the game's dumb AI I'm not sure it's even a matter of balance, more like oversight. Just as I'm not sure if finding a base way too strong for it's trophy range (*koff*trophy surfers*koff*) has anything to do with balance of gameplay or any other kind.

I dunno... :mellow:

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11 hours ago, Fourofjacks said:

ninja's are not really a competition either. As you say, who designs a competition with the aim of >90% people coming 1st place.
Its not a competition, even though their are rankings.

 

yes, as you say, with a few mistakes rushing gate its balanced if you need to rush the gate. without mistakes if you can get 100% then it is balanced. If i make no mistakes and still cannot get 100% then it is not balanced, or I am hitting above my weight. This whole game (assume no trophy manipulation) top 100 should be balanced around all being able to get 100% against each other. 100-200, same, 200-300 same. rank 1000-1500 hit each other 100%.

If top 100 cannot no matter how well they play get 100% against each other without scrolling, then it is not balanced.

gate towers are part of the game, and the game needs to be balanced around them.
as you say, it is 15-20s required to kill them, more if you want to scream back to make sure your army doesn't kill gate.
so you cannot ignore them when balancing attack and defense, if you balance the game around just bringing down the gate / 99%, then you are forcing people to scroll to get 100% not matter how well they play and that is not right nor balanced.

conversely what you are saying is that, your version of balanced is that everyone has to scroll to get 100%. that's not how it should be.

As I said before, it's pretty simple: you cannot expect bases to be easy enough so that you have 15-20 seconds (or more) to play around and avoid destroying the game. That's not balance, that's just a perfectly doable base.

Gate towers are a separate issue. I think they should not even be part of the game (at least not like this, where you have to play the "lets try to not destroy the gate and go for the towers instead"). But the point remains: your attack is sucessfull at 98%, you get to go to the COF. That's not a perfect victory, but it's a victory. While you can get there scroll free with decent skills and combo, that's pretty much balanced to me.

Edited by ARREBIMBA

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