• Announcements

    • Alysea

      Discord Server   09/28/2016

      Hello everyone, We now have a Discord Server for Royal Revolt 2! You can head out here to join us! Please note that this is not a support channel and it is not an official channel. If you need to contact the support, please go here: http://support.flaregames.com
LacunaC

ANOTHER way to balance out gate towers

Recommended Posts

ANOTHER easy way to balance out silly gate towers strategy, is to give "bonuses" on how much time remains. Almost every game rewards the player for completing a level faster, because a player who completes the level faster is THE BETTER player, not the other way round.

 

Hence, bonuses such as added gold, XP, medals, and most importantly, SKULLS, should be added based on how much time is left, then the silly gate tower strategy will automatically be balanced out.

 

For example, we can add 1 skull per second left. Hence, if someone completes the base with 60 seconds left, he will be awarded an additional 60 skulls.

 

Hence, if a player chooses to put 6 gate towers, making it easier to complete his base, he will risk having the raider to gain skulls from completing the base faster. This will add diversity to defense strategy.

 

Not only that, it creates a new layer and meaning to "having a better defense" because even if you can beat base A and base B, but because base B is much harder, it takes longer to beat base B, it will then finally mean it is worthwhile to ACTUALLY invest in defense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LacunaC said:

Hence, bonuses such as added gold, XP, medals, and most importantly, SKULLS, should be added based on how much time is left, then the silly gate tower strategy will automatically be balanced out.

bad idea, top wars REQUIRE timewarp and everything else scrolls.

Id be broke in like 2 war seasons if this rule was implemented

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Strongsoon said:

bad idea, top wars REQUIRE timewarp and everything else scrolls.

Id be broke in like 2 war seasons if this rule was implemented

First and foremost...."REQUIRE"? I am fighting VL now and I haven't used a single scroll attacking them in war.

 

Secondly, the suggestion in this thread can co-exist with the scroll "time warp" just by having a "separate clock", i.e. deduct the extra time gained from timewarp in the calculation of the bonuses.

 

Thirdly, it is fine if any other scrolls are used in battle to finish the battle faster in the calculation of bonuses apart from "time warp". This will bring balances back to the top 4 where they are already losing out on LB.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, LacunaC said:

First and foremost...."REQUIRE"? I am fighting VL now and I haven't used a single scroll attacking them in war.

 

Secondly, the suggestion in this thread can co-exist with the scroll "time warp" just by having a "separate clock", i.e. deduct the extra time gained from timewarp in the calculation of the bonuses.

 

Thirdly, it is fine if any other scrolls are used in battle to finish the battle faster in the calculation of bonuses apart from "time warp". This will bring balances back to the top 4 where they are already losing out on LB.

you never mentioned anything about having a separate clock hence i took you literally

yes, i know that you can beat vl really easily now days without scrolling, i fought them last war, but what i was referring was that if you were based of skulls and time,etc, you would be required to use a timewarp to maximise your skulls.

if you had mentioned the second and third point, then i wouldn't have wrote that, no need to correct me on your own mistake ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Strongsoon said:

you never mentioned anything about having a separate clock hence i took you literally

yes, i know that you can beat vl really easily now days without scrolling, i fought them last war, but what i was referring was that if you were based of skulls and time,etc, you would be required to use a timewarp to maximise your skulls.

if you had mentioned the second and third point, then i wouldn't have wrote that, no need to correct me on your own mistake ;) 

It's a suggested concept, of course there are many other things to be ironed out. The "separate clock" is just one of the many variables. It's not a mistake, I made this fully conscious of the many variables involved.

 

For example, if I win with 60 seconds left, will the 60 additional skulls be "pure addition" (like those you get in COF) or is it part of the top 3 score.

 

Also, there is also a suggested variation where, if Flare doesn't want to buff defense, then another way to go about it is to have those "bonuses" triggered only when "no scrolls" are used. Top alliances with more boosts and better level beasts will still have an advantage here, to balance out what they are losing out on LB.

 

Lastly, you're the one who put "REQUIRE" with capital letters, then now say it is easy to beat VL without scrolls... =.="

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea but I can see some balancing issues. Top alliances will have an automatic advantage, and if it's 1 skull per second, you would have a good chance of getting more skills than you would if you went after the gate towers just from saving the time. Personally I think that attackers should be incentivised to go after all the towers and use whatever time is available to them. Also, with this, players would just go after the weaker players instead of trying to beat the best opponent they can. How would you fix these @LacunaC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, QuantumApocalypse said:

I like the idea but I can see some balancing issues. Top alliances will have an automatic advantage, and if it's 1 skull per second, you would have a good chance of getting more skills than you would if you went after the gate towers just from saving the time. Personally I think that attackers should be incentivised to go after all the towers and use whatever time is available to them. Also, with this, players would just go after the weaker players instead of trying to beat the best opponent they can. How would you fix these @LacunaC?

 

I'll address the last part of your quote first. You are right, that needs "balancing". Perhaps a slight change in war where top 5 (or any other number) of the team during war, you can't use scroll on them, and only on them you get those "bonuses".

 

As for the first part of your quote, I believe top alliances should have a different kind of advantages since those from lower ranking alliances already have the advantage of LB. Give and take, that should give top 4 a fighting chance now against the top 20.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, LacunaC said:

ANOTHER easy way to balance out silly gate towers strategy, is to give "bonuses" on how much time remains. Almost every game rewards the player for completing a level faster, because a player who completes the level faster is THE BETTER player, not the other way round.

 

Hence, bonuses such as added gold, XP, medals, and most importantly, SKULLS, should be added based on how much time is left, then the silly gate tower strategy will automatically be balanced out.

 

For example, we can add 1 skull per second left. Hence, if someone completes the base with 60 seconds left, he will be awarded an additional 60 skulls.

 

Hence, if a player chooses to put 6 gate towers, making it easier to complete his base, he will risk having the raider to gain skulls from completing the base faster. This will add diversity to defense strategy.

 

Not only that, it creates a new layer and meaning to "having a better defense" because even if you can beat base A and base B, but because base B is much harder, it takes longer to beat base B, it will then finally mean it is worthwhile to ACTUALLY invest in defense.

Would that be just for wars or for all game play? If for regular game play how would you balance COF raids that leave towers intentionally? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, GFYRR2 said:

Would that be just for wars or for all game play? If for regular game play how would you balance COF raids that leave towers intentionally? 

For normal play there shouldn't be a problem, cause if someone wants to gem and get better time to have more bonuses on xp or gold, well.... That's up to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, LacunaC said:

Lastly, you're the one who put "REQUIRE" with capital letters, then now say it is easy to beat VL without scrolls... =.="

Cause then its easier to score higher skulls to maximise skulls. lol.

think through your own concept prior to the update and you will understand why i said its a REQUIREMENT to scroll against every alliance. every base can be beaten easily without scrolls. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, LacunaC said:

ANOTHER easy way to balance out silly gate towers strategy, is to give "bonuses" on how much time remains. Almost every game rewards the player for completing a level faster, because a player who completes the level faster is THE BETTER player, not the other way round.

That's what I've been hoping for!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting idea, but too complicated for my liking with all the if's and butts you are having to add it like separate timer. still many things to factor in, dragon animation effect on clock. suicide running (with timewarp?). Then you still have the same issues with balancing that the other suggestions have.

If they actually do decide to do something about the gate towers, I hope they give a simple solution.

Eg, what they did so stop the strategy of just having two gate towers and nothing else, that was something i considered quite simple and straightforward, compared to many of the other suggestions proposed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Fourofjacks said:

interesting idea, but too complicated for my liking with all the if's and butts you are having to add it like separate timer. still many things to factor in, dragon animation effect on clock. suicide running (with timewarp?). Then you still have the same issues with balancing that the other suggestions have.

If they actually do decide to do something about the gate towers, I hope they give a simple solution.

Eg, what they did so stop the strategy of just having two gate towers and nothing else, that was something i considered quite simple and straightforward, compared to many of the other suggestions proposed.

For this very reason, that the Time warp scrolls exists, this would make this idea/feature not fair for everyone.

Now about the Gate towers, the whole power of defense will be rebalanced in a way that offense is not overpowered anymore, we are working on it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, FTB said:

For this very reason, that the Time warp scrolls exists, this would make this idea/feature not fair for everyone.

Now about the Gate towers, the whole power of defense will be rebalanced in a way that offense is not overpowered anymore, we are working on it :)

Nice, big mistake in my opinion due to the fact that the defense since I started this game was inherently weaker than offense. At least it should make it easier to raid others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, FTB said:

Now about the Gate towers, the whole power of defense will be rebalanced in a way that offense is not overpowered anymore, we are working on it :)

please consider offense is not overpowered for most players, probably only for higher ranked players with access to certain combos, and heavily forged item that most will not have.

and secondly, the gold/loot rewards for fighting others in the game is geared towards having to beat higher ranked opponents to get good gold. If you make a conscious change to make defense harder, please make it also easier to get gold on equal / lower rank opponents.

my experience is that not many have left the game / got bored / found it frustrating when offense is stronger, but when defense is too strong and they can't find people to beat / can't find gold that is when they leave the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sincerely hope that more defensive boosts are flare their solution. Or any other ideas (subscriptions or fiefdoms) that strengthen defenses by x %.

Let us place more towers instead, build a longer path, add more morale to waves and make sure that obstacles, even when forged to the max, don't go down by a single spell (hint, bladestorm). Another option would be to give raiders less time. Defense should be overpowered, strongest defenses should only be beatable scroll free by the best skilled raiders, rest should fail. and like I said, strongest defenses should not be depending on even more boosts. We don't need boosts for every defending structure, even the landscape could determine a certain strength for defense. 

It's abnormal that we always need either hammer or sonic to take out the gate towers, while we have plenty of time left and that the rest of the raid doesn't really need those spells. 

I would like to have the option that the gate is not targeted by troops when there are gate towers remaining. That it sometimes costs me the raid, is fine with me, then I should have destroyed those towers. Maybe that's the solution, when more than 10 seconds left, target any gate tower first with troops, whether or not they are in range. Only during last 10 seconds, let troops focus on the gate. 

It's abnormal lately, we see bases where we have a lot of time ( more than 30 seconds plus even often more than 60 seconds remaining) left and just don't score 100%, since only attention of forging and maxing towers is spend on gate towers. The rest of the towers are just low leveled. Paying attention and taking care of defense should be rewarded, don't reward players that only prevent scoring 100% by forging health plus resistance on gate towers. The goal of defense should be to prevent breaking the gate, not to prevent scoring 100%. 

Either way, come up with a solution that gets rid of these gate towers, without the need to scroll to score 100%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LacunaC is absolutely right, some people are using strategy to just forge 6 towers line them up near gate during war and not alow raider to complete 100% . For betterment of game and wars, strategy should be to defeat the raider not just prevent 100%. Many a times when I reach gate i have like 60secs and still i end up with less skulls cz gate come dwn bt not gate towers, pathetic strategy by people. They should try to build a strong base rather than a strong gate area

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Dena4 said:

I sincerely hope that more defensive boosts are flare their solution. Or any other ideas (subscriptions or fiefdoms) that strengthen defenses by x %.

Let us place more towers instead, build a longer path, add more morale to waves and make sure that obstacles, even when forged to the max, don't go down by a single spell (hint, bladestorm). Another option would be to give raiders less time. Defense should be overpowered, strongest defenses should only be beatable scroll free by the best skilled raiders, rest should fail.

totally disagree. Without heal ring (heavily forged) (bomb kick to certain extent) which many do not have, defense is already decently strong. Take away ceres / aska (maybe irmgard) as well then defense is strong. Not everyone has access to these, if you do a blanket def upgrade these guys already having trouble will have even more trouble. Its going to cause backlash, but balance wise the best solution is to nerf these overpowered items / pals same as they did for toxic cloud slowdown. Its fine to have stronger items, but these are too much stronger than the rest. Other option is to make them more readily available, or other really strong items / pals that are easy to get. You shouldn't balance def / offense based overpowered items.

Its almost like trying to get cromka to view things from lower alliance point of view, but you need to consider the majority of players that do not heavily trophy dump. Making defenses so strong you can't beat anyone around your rating, and that they give little gold when they do, will drive away players in droves. It is not fun to play if you cannot win battles, and cannot get gold to upgrade stuff.

We saw a glimpse of this with the original FBT pro boost, where defenses were overpowered with it, the game was not fun for many. Most players do not want def so strong they have to rely on scrolling to beat every base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MightyAnurag1 said:

LacunaC is absolutely right, some people are using strategy to just forge 6 towers line them up near gate during war and not alow raider to complete 100% . For betterment of game and wars, strategy should be to defeat the raider not just prevent 100%. Many a times when I reach gate i have like 60secs and still i end up with less skulls cz gate come dwn bt not gate towers, pathetic strategy by people. They should try to build a strong base rather than a strong gate area

They are playing smart, if you had 60s spare and they had distributed their only strong towers around their defense, you probably would still have reached the gate with 50s to spare.

For better or worse, gate towers bring more variety to the game. Otherwise there is less choice on defense, and for offense people will use less variety of spells as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Fourofjacks said:

They are playing smart, if you had 60s spare and they had distributed their only strong towers around their defense, you probably would still have reached the gate with 50s to spare.

For better or worse, gate towers bring more variety to the game. Otherwise there is less choice on defense, and for offense people will use less variety of spells as well.

Many a times i have just minimal health to survive if people start using all towers inside the base its gng to be much more likely raider can die. With such a long time needed to forge also with gate towers u nt adding variety instead its like asking u to stuck to hammer or sonic and also use monk as one troop and rest two u can choose bt one spel slot and one troop slot is locked so its restricting the raider to add variety to raiding

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, MightyAnurag1 said:

Many a times i have just minimal health to survive if people start using all towers inside the base its gng to be much more likely raider can die. With such a long time needed to forge also with gate towers u nt adding variety instead its like asking u to stuck to hammer or sonic and also use monk as one troop and rest two u can choose bt one spel slot and one troop slot is locked so its restricting the raider to add variety to raiding

If you have 60s to spare, you are obviously much stronger than their base. If you are "much more likely to die" if they have no gate towers where you are much stronger than them, then the obvious issue is the user behind the screen. The defense in this case realize their weak defense will not stop you beating their base, but they are smart enough to know many attackers are not skilled enough / don't know how / cant be bothered to beat their gate towers. Sounds smart to me.

Monk is not required for gate towers. Variety in the form of that most people do not use hammer or sonic outside where gate towers are used. If there were no gate towers, hammer and sonic not required then most people will use the same combo for every fight, war, ninja, gold, luck, etc every raid same combo. At this gets people using different combo's. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Fourofjacks said:

If you have 60s to spare, you are obviously much stronger than their base. If you are "much more likely to die" if they have no gate towers where you are much stronger than them, then the obvious issue is the user behind the screen. The defense in this case realize their weak defense will not stop you beating their base, but they are smart enough to know many attackers are not skilled enough / don't know how / cant be bothered to beat their gate towers. Sounds smart to me.

Monk is not required for gate towers. Variety in the form of that most people do not use hammer or sonic outside where gate towers are used. If there were no gate towers, hammer and sonic not required then most people will use the same combo for every fight, war, ninja, gold, luck, etc every raid same combo. At this gets people using different combo's. 

 

Hence, this alternative suggestion in this thread will be the best of both worlds, at a little expense of "complexity". It gives the player the option to retain gate towers, at the risk of the raider completing the base with more remaining time.

 

Although the proposed solution isn't a straightforward one, it is one that addresses many other complex system in the game, including LB. Hence, I don't think it's "fair" to expect a less complex fix to a balancing issue caused by the inherently complex system of the game. By "complex", i meant, game mechanics wise.

 

Furthermore, the proposed solution seems simple in comparison to the LB system. If I can sum it up in a simple paragraph below that can be comprehended by most players, i deem it "simple" enough. So here's my attempt:-

 

"During war, attacking the top 5 players without scrolls or revive entitles you to gain bonus skulls on remaining time left, at a ratio of 1 additional skull per second. Outside of war, bonuses are applied to any raids, regardless of whether scrolls or revives are used, at a ratio of 0.5% extra gold and xp per second left in the raid."

 

Not to hard to understand eh? =)

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MightyAnurag1 said:

LacunaC is absolutely right, some people are using strategy to just forge 6 towers line them up near gate during war and not alow raider to complete 100% . For betterment of game and wars, strategy should be to defeat the raider not just prevent 100%. Many a times when I reach gate i have like 60secs and still i end up with less skulls cz gate come dwn bt not gate towers, pathetic strategy by people. They should try to build a strong base rather than a strong gate area

Since offense is overpowered, more than ever, that's all people can do. Only top bases with a lot of forges are somewhat strong, every other base is more or less weak. Since almost everyone can win with ease on those "not forged a ton" bases, people stack their gate with towers, to prevent opponents from getting 100%. To minimize the skull loss and to minimize the trophy loss. Without gate towers, I would lose probably up to 9-10 or maybe more trophies per fight, depending on the opponent. With gate towers, I only lose up to 6 maybe, but most of the time it's less than 5. So, do you wanna lose 10, or just 4? Basically, it has nothing to do with being a coward or whatever, it's just what people have to do nowadays, cause fg messed the whole game up badly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now