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Celestial Phoebe Is Over Powered

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Flare has all but admitted that Phoebe was imabalanced with the introduction of Guardians. If Phoebe didn't exist, I doubt Guardians would either. Having experimented with Gasper for a day, I can tell you that, for me, it has completely mitigated the issue. The only thing Flare should do is make Gasper more prevalent. Everyone should be given Gasper within a month of playing. It was mentioned earlier that using guardians to kill Phoebe is like applying a band-aid to a gunshot wound. I contend the opposite. It's the most effective solution, and allows you to tailor the rest of your offense to your liking. I'm up almost 200 trophies in a day, purely on a handful of offensive raids. I may hit a wall later, but clearly my offensive combo is/was effective against my peers, with the exception of killing Celestial Phoebe. Now, not everyone has to raid with the same set of forged spells and boosted troops, and that feels like a good shift in the game to me.

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4 hours ago, Dena4 said:

Let me put it in another way, without phoebe beast as the cause.

Everyone who plays this game has some kind of expectation. Sooner or later a majority of players (especially the cash free players) accept that they aren't able to beat top bases. In fact most accept that they can't defeat a certain kind of players, let it be players of top teams, players with a certain hero or trophy level or even a certain boost active. That's fine, since there are enough players out there that qualify for them to win against.

But now we see something else again, similar like the problem we faced years ago due to a bug. Remember the time when frenzies only were killable by swordrain or blizzard and due to a bug (swordraind and blizzard sometimes not working) those bases became very hard and in fact it was frustrating, since only way to win was to scroll heavily. So what did we do? We avoided bases with frenzies during non war season.

It was even worse, players with hero levels 30+ lower were able to beat bases of strong heros that didn't have those war boosts. In fact it was a nightmare. That was fixed by solving that bug and giving even higher alliance levels that make elite boosts stronger.

Let me say it this way. Take out the guardian plus beast for example. There are bases out their that are a total joke, beatable with plenty (60-90+ seconds) of time remaining. For hero levels 100+, bases from players level 70- should be a walk in the park. Now put back beast only. Why suddenly some hero levels 100+ fail on that same base? Phoebe beast is the answer. So should we blame the 100+ hero (or any other player) that now fails miserably on almost any phoebe defense base, since he can't handle that beast?

Must we tell him to unlock max monsters in dungons, forge them endless times, upgrade anything that's needed to max and forge spells, troops also endless times? Upgrade their pal (Janus, ceres, aska, irmgard or any other pal) to level 8+, search for items with tons of leadership, scream, speed and of course get heal ring and forge health up to 100%+. I forgot, of course they are expected to do that all yesterday? Get real, to adapt it needs literally months or even longer. 

Must we advice our virtual friends, our members to search another team if they can't keep up? That's exactly the thing we don't want to tell them. They want fun and this phoebe beast is ruining the fun of a large group of players, who have difficulties with them. Yes, phoebe is a pro beast, but still. Main figure is hero, he should be the strongest one out there. There are also other pro beasts out there, but they are also easy to beat, especially the level 6- ones. 

Why oh why a level 1 beast is that hard to beat for most players. I would reduce the heal puddles and make appearance of those depending on level of that beast. Sure, it's hard to collect enough phoebes to get it to a descent level, but it's also hard for medium teams to get other beasts up to level 5+ and still those beasts are easy to beat. 

There is a guardian out there, able to solve their problems. But guess again, it all depends on a factor of luck to find him. While some find him pretty fast, others need to hope to find him someday. I have an easy solution for you. Make Gaspar buyable. Even if it would be only buyable with real cash, some would gladly spend it to get that solution.

The other dude is using Archers + cannons + arblasters and Phoebe pal... 😲 are you kidding me? That's as broken as possible. Well, maybe you can add mortars to break it even more... jesus.

 

Anyway, I think you're missing what's really going on, Dena.

 

At the start of the game (lets say until lvl50), troops (which are unboosted) are mostly useless and spells are 90% of your actual fire power. This pushes players to a certain playstyle (relying mostly on their king and their spells) that does not work in the high mid - end game.

These inexperienced players will swear up and down that their (broken) combo is great and really works! Why wouldn't they? It works for them, at very low trophy ranges, against unboosted and unforged defenses. They've been playing like that for months (they are lvl 80-90 already) and it has always worked. Everything is great so far!

Plot twist: enter Celestial Phoebe. It's not that Phoebe is hard or OP (it's not) and sure, it dies in under 5 seconds like any other beast, but there's one thing that sets Phoebe apart, which is that it shows no mercy to noobs and broken combos/playstyles. Absolutely none. Celestial Phoebe will break them down pretty effectively.

 

This is what you're seeing here. The same old broken combos and playstyles that "always worked against everything else", do not work against the Celestial Phoebe.

But it's not a true statement, is it? Those broken combos and playstyle didn't "work against everything else". They didn't work against boosted gargoyle defenses. They don't work against the Fritz or Howl beasts. They don't work against mid-high boosted defenses. They don't work against mid-high-elite forged defenses.

In fact, when you look carefully, those broken combos/playstyles only really really work against unforged, unboosted defenses, with low level beasts.

 

A year ago, you only really had to adapt your broken playstyle/combos when you got to 4000 trophies, because that's more or less when defenses get maxed (but still unboosted and unforged). Your broken ways were able to get you that far, problem-free.

Nowadays, thanks to the massification of the Phoebe beast, you have to adapt much earlier, at 2500-3000 trophies, against defenses that aren't maxed yet.

You always had to adapt, but now it's sooner.

 

That is the reality of the situation regarding Celestial Phoebe.

 

 

Adapting the way you play (playstyle, combos, items, spells, troops, boosts, defense layout) is part of the natural process of playing this game and it's not exclusive to low lvl players. Every one of us must do this to progress.

Do you remember the meltdown in this forum back in August when 4.0 was introduced? People were livid with the Ceres nerf (me included) and it was mostly high lvl and experienced players. Same thing with the Toxic Cloud nerf.

In the end, everyone had to adapt and we're all past that now. Combos evolved and adapted to the new reality and everything is fine again.

Edited by ARREBIMBA

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OK, so ignoring the fact that those with issues dealing with Phoebe are just mentally deficient, and are playing the game wrong, does anyone have an aversion to Flare increasing the availability of Gasper? That seems to be the only ask at this point. That's been proposed by more than just me, and it solves the problem for the masses of morons (myself included).

By the way, just empirically, I seem to have the same or higher trophy count than most others at my hero level, and I'm doing it in an alliance that doesn't even boost knights. I seem to be doing OK, despite my mental disadvantage.

Edited by ElFuego

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the main problem of this game and other of this same kind is people try to raid like a Rambo style 😂. The best example I can give is in Dawn of Steel. If you watch my video you will see people enter in middle of the base and be destroy in 1 minute or less. Really? In Dawn of Steel I have stop over 40 fight in a row and I am undefeated because player don't take time to understand the mechanics,the gameplay and learn weakness,range and all about defense and building effect

Here in Royal Revolt 2 or Olympus Rising its the same. Player don't take time to understand the mechanics,gameplay and cannot adapt depending of your level and cannot adapt to opponent base. So the majority fail against Phoebe because you don't adapt and you don't want to take time to play this game like you suppose to be. In final every one lose and be kill by Phoebe.

If you take time to adapt and learn Rambo style its not the best way to deal with Phoebe. Your chance to win against her will be favorable and you will succeed. Learn defense weakness,learn beast weakness,learn to cast spells and learn to use the right combo. Change and adapt depending the base

if you see blockade,skull tower and Werewolf you will not take Firestorm with you. You will bring Fritz and Blizzard. If you have Ogres, knight,etc.. you will bring Sword Rain and Stun,etc.. Adapt is the key

if you have upgrade and focus only on some units and spells. Its your own fault. Everyone know you must have all to be able to adapt. So if you use Archer + Arblaster + Cannon or worst combo like this because you have nothing else. its your own fault at final. You need blade storm,firestorm,blizzard,toxic cloud,sonic blast and all to be able to adapt. Remember this and I am sure your gameplay will be better in future

Edited by Warriornator

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4 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

The other dude is using Archers + cannons + arblasters and Phoebe pal... 😲 are you kidding me? That's as broken as possible. Well, maybe you can add mortars to break it even more... jesus.

 

Anyway, I think you're missing what's really going on, Dena.

 

At the start of the game (lets say until lvl50), troops (which are unboosted) are mostly useless and spells are 90% of your actual fire power. This pushes players to a certain playstyle (relying mostly on their king and their spells) that does not work in the high mid - end game.

These inexperienced players will swear up and down that their (broken) combo is great and really works! Why wouldn't they? It works for them, at very low trophy ranges, against unboosted and unforged defenses. They've been playing like that for months (they are lvl 80-90 already) and it has always worked. Everything is great so far!

Plot twist: enter Celestial Phoebe. It's not that Phoebe is hard or OP (it's not) and sure, it dies in under 5 seconds like any other beast, but there's one thing that sets Phoebe apart, which is that it shows no mercy to noobs and broken combos/playstyles. Absolutely none. Celestial Phoebe will break them down pretty effectively.

 

This is what you're seeing here. The same old broken combos and playstyles that "always worked against everything else", do not work against the Celestial Phoebe.

But it's not a true statement, is it? Those broken combos and playstyle didn't "work against everything else". They didn't work against boosted gargoyle defenses. They don't work against the Fritz or Howl beasts. They don't work against mid-high boosted defenses. They don't work against mid-high-elite forged defenses.

In fact, when you look carefully, those broken combos/playstyles only really really work against unforged, unboosted defenses, with low level beasts.

 

A year ago, you only really had to adapt your broken playstyle/combos when you got to 4000 trophies, because that's more or less when defenses get maxed (but still unboosted and unforged). Your broken ways were able to get you that far, problem-free.

Nowadays, thanks to the massification of the Phoebe beast, you have to adapt much earlier, at 2500-3000 trophies, against defenses that aren't maxed yet.

You always had to adapt, but now it's sooner.

 

That is the reality of the situation regarding Celestial Phoebe.

 

 

Adapting the way you play (playstyle, combos, items, spells, troops, boosts, defense layout) is part of the natural process of playing this game and it's not exclusive to low lvl players. Every one of us must do this to progress.

Do you remember the meltdown in this forum back in August when 4.0 was introduced? People were livid with the Ceres nerf (me included) and it was mostly high lvl and experienced players. Same thing with the Toxic Cloud nerf.

In the end, everyone had to adapt and we're all past that now. Combos evolved and adapted to the new reality and everything is fine again.

Nope, I am not missing anything Arrebimba. When players who were my team members since the start of alliances (100+ hero level) lose their raids against paper bases, just because that pro beast is killing their entire army and even very low players already have that beast in defense, I would say open your eyes and dare to admit something is seriously wrong with that picture.

You can repeat that high level howl or fritz are worse, but which low or medium team has high level of those? The answer is none of them. So that's a non argument for low to medium teams. However… more and more of those same teams do have phoebe level 1+. See the picture? 

Yes, I might be the cause of some of my members their misery, being long time leading a double team and making it easy for a lot of members, securing war boosts all the time. With those boosts indeed players didn't need to improve a lot, the boosts helped to win. Sure, you need an army to beat phoebe or some guys even can do it hero solo, but that won't help players who didn't see the light and who lose time after time. New leader decides to use another strategy, leveling up alliance and as a result indeed the ones not adapting have difficulties, since we now seldom win war boosts and even let them expire. 

That's the theory. Now reality. A member says he is losing all his raids due to phoebe. Please tell him how he must win with the arsenal he has right now.

They have nothing on advice to join another team and also don't have all the time in the world to forge spells and troops to adapt. I can tell them to use archers in combination with Janus and as answer you get they don't have janus. You tell them to buy Janus with Crystals and level up Janus with pal food. They tell you they have almost no pal food... And then the theory of adapting ends right there. Then I can say, use wolf, ogres. They didn't forge them, so also no option. Then use knights, they can't keep them alive. More brilliant advices that I must burn to the ground, since they all demand time from that player? And that's what they don't have. We can't ask them to keep losing, till they forged or upgraded stuff to beat phoebe. 

You need to help them with stuff they have. High shield? Nope, other spells are maxed, but shield they have pretty low, so also no option. Then it's easy to say, they had to adapt, but they didn't do and how you help players that are in such condition and are desperate? You will know what I mean. 

Only thing you can do, is ask them to be patient and work on improving the situation and hope they will do so, since it will take months to adapt, when the equipment isn't good enough. 

Winning with arblasters and cannons against phoebe only works against very low hero levels, against normal hero levels, arblasters are dead by first stroke, maybe they mean frenzies, but also those are killed by first stroke, unless you summon them through portal after the armageddon. 

Let me tell you that I even sometimes lose against phoebe and I admit it's most times due to my mistake. Last war season we fought one team 4 days in a row. I did raid one player twice per war. Very easy base, even with the stargazer boost, I had more than a minute left. Why? I kept shield ready to activate, hero scream plus guardian ready to cast. Easy kill of phoebe all the time. Then on last day, for some silly reason, the bug that clicking on a button did not work occurred, so I had to swipe my screen down and release it to get buttons work again. Result, guardian activated at a moment I didn't want and since I kept clicking, shield also activated. I don't need to explain what happened next. No shield, guardian almost gone, phoebe strikes, major part of troops are killed. And as a bonus in that chaos, phoebe does kill my hero. Now tell me, what other beast is able to do that in low or medium alliances. Any other beast would be no problem, against any other beast I could have fixed the problem and won easily.

I know it's due to that bug that I actually lost, I normally time guardian and spells well to beat phoebe. I also know that running backwards to let hero recover and use portal of janus to beat phoebe with archers is easy backup plan.

I did say not for nothing keenflare nerfed Ceres and other stuff for nothing. They explicitly said, they want diversity. How you can speak of diversity when you need shield spell or boosts like mad monks to survive phoebe? A lot of troops you can't use since they won't survive! That's the opposite of so called diversity.

Also nice that you mention the 5 seconds before phoebe dies. Against ascension archer or pro boost paladin or max boosted knights/archers yes , but what happens when that beast keeps healing itself for whatever reason and a second armageddon is nearby? Don't tell me you never have been in that situation, if you haven't then visit lower teams with non maxed boosts (so archers or knights of a medium team!) and feel free to raid a level 130 phoebe beast. Then that beast doesn't go down within 5 seconds and then…. 

For medium and lower teams with far from maxed boosts phoebe beast can be a huge problem. Like I said before, main problem is that this beast keeps healing itself, to beat it fast, you need an army that survives first attack and is able to deal enough damage to kill it, even when tons of heal puddles are summoned.

There is one counter option now for them, Gaspar. Unfortunately we can't buy it somewhere , but must hope to find it. Make it buyable for players, then phoebe will disappear out of defenses at rapid speed.

Edited by Dena4

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4 hours ago, Dena4 said:

You need to help them with stuff they have.

You need to help them with all tools available to them (including the stuff that they don't have, but should already have).
Celestial Phoebe is essentialy a broken combo problem, not a boost or balance problem. That's why I don't usually tell people to change alliances for dealing with Phoebe.

However, if they have a broken combo, I will point it out and try to help there. If they should be using Shield but aren't, then it must be said.

 

4 hours ago, Dena4 said:

I did say not for nothing keenflare nerfed Ceres and other stuff for nothing. They explicitly said, they want diversity. How you can speak of diversity when you need shield spell or boosts like mad monks to survive phoebe? A lot of troops you can't use since they won't survive! That's the opposite of so called diversity. 

Well Shield is not a must if you have other stuff (experience, items, etc). But if you're starting out, Shield is the most important spell for you.

You don't need monks against Phoebe, but yes, they also help when you're still getting used to facing Phoebe, even without Mad Monk.

 

4 hours ago, Dena4 said:

Nope, I Also nice that you mention the 5 seconds before phoebe dies. Against ascension archer or pro boost paladin or max boosted knights/archers yes , but what happens when that beast keeps healing itself for whatever reason and a second armageddon is nearby? Don't tell me you never have been in that situation, if you haven't then visit lower teams with non maxed boosts (so archers or knights of a medium team!) and feel free to raid a level 130 phoebe beast. Then that beast doesn't go down within 5 seconds and then….

Of course I have, it happens everytime I mess up. Have you seen what happens when you allow an Howl to howl in the vicinity of an army of skeletons? It's the same thing, it's not exclusive to Phoebe.

 

Why should knights and archers of a mediam team be able to easily beat a Phoebe from a max lvl player? Am I missing something here?

When I say boosted Knights are effective, I mean in a balanced situation, like a lvl105 player raiding another lvl105 player with a lvl1-2 Phoebe. It dies in 5 seconds if you play it right, we all know that. It dies in even less time against boosted Archers (only elite boost, even without the pro archer).

Of course a lvl105 player going against a lvl130 player is something else entirely. It's obviously harder.

 

4 hours ago, Dena4 said:

There is one counter option now for them, Gaspar. Unfortunately we can't buy it somewhere , but must hope to find it. Make it buyable for players, then phoebe will disappear out of defenses at rapid speed. 

Gaspar is not a viable solution and I would not recommend it to anyone.

Edited by ARREBIMBA

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11 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

You need to help them with all tools available to them (including the stuff that they don't have, but should already have).
Celestial Phoebe is essentialy a broken combo problem, not a boost or balance problem. That's why I don't usually tell people to change alliances for dealing with Phoebe.

However, if they have a broken combo, I will point it out and try to help there. If they should be using Shield but aren't, then it must be said.

 

Well Shield is not a must if you have other stuff (experience, items, etc). But if you're starting out, Shield is the most important spell for you.

You don't need monks against Phoebe, but yes, they also help when you're still getting used to facing Phoebe, even without Mad Monk.

 

Of course I have, it happens everytime I mess up. Have you seen what happens when you allow an Howl to howl in the vicinity of an army of skeletons? It's the same thing, it's not exclusive to Phoebe.

 

Why should knights and archers of a mediam team be able to easily beat a Phoebe from a max lvl player? Am I missing something here?

When I say boosted Knights are effective, I mean in a balanced situation, like a lvl105 player raiding another lvl105 player with a lvl1-2 Phoebe. It dies in 5 seconds if you play it right, we all know that. It dies in even less time against boosted Archers (only elite boost, even without the pro archer).

Of course a lvl105 player going against a lvl130 player is something else entirely. It's obviously harder.

 

Gaspar is not a viable solution and I would not recommend it to anyone.

That's why I start with mentioning shield spell and point out to work on that, but when they still need a lot of levels to upgrade (some even have shield level 1!), it's not really an option right now. On long term planning it is, they definitely should listen and work on that to improve their situation. We did the same in the past, it's called adapting and having a lot more options.

I don't think any low/medium team has max primal howl and neither one of them has boosted necromancer. So that problem I see only arise at higher teams.

I never said that players need to be able to beat bases from high alliance players, in fact it's normal that they lose before even a beast leaves the gate, when defense is forged quite well. But when those bases are like paper and they use a low level beast, yes, then they definitely should be able to beat it when their offense is strong enough. Of course a high level beast should be able to make a difference, otherwise beasts are completely obsolete. 

Sure, it's their mistake not listening at all, when I and other members explained other members which combos to use a long time ago, including shield, boosted knights/archers plus pals they have to use. Maybe at that moment they were picking bases of opponents that not put phoebe in defense, who knows for whatever reason they did ignore it? 

You are absolutely correct that players must eliminate their problems step by step, there is no (easy) solution to solve all problems at once, it needs time. It's absolutely their mistake to ignore those well meant advices. That we lose every now and then, fine, but not 90%+ all the time, even while raiding a lower level hero beast when the rest of the defense is really a joke. And that's their problem (read: not ours, but theirs), just a low level beast stops them from winning.

We can rub that into their face, that we told that a long time ago, fact is, it won't help them. We want to prevent them to quit, that's only possible when they realize they need to accept losing against bases for now and tell them we don't mind, as long as they work on the solution and improve.

Messing up a raid, I wouldn't call it, not having a spell or guardian active, when the beast arrives. How often I sometimes misclick (summoning insta troop or even activating a spell unintended), I lost counting. Is that a mistake? Not according to me, those things happen. When troops are still full health and even shielded when the beast arrives, it should not be a problem that should lead to losing the raid.

I have seen situations that a phoebe just refuses to die within 5 seconds or less, even with all firepower ready. Using shield spell at the right moment, screaming to make troops do more damage, pushing him into a wolf to activate wolf howl (but for some unknown reason wolf doesn't howl). And then annoying enough see that not a single scratch is done, just because of something unacceptable happened according to me.

Pushing phoebe around the army and noticing complete path was covered with heal puddles. That I call absurd. No other beast keeps summoning some special ability several times within a split second. When any other level 1-3 beast would do that, this forum would be filled with reactions of angry mobs. Compare it with low level howl keep howling (without needing time to howl), or any other beast keep using his special ability every split second, we would not accept that. So why is it acceptable that phoebe can summon tons of heal puddles within a blink of an eye? Yes, I know the reason why he summons those, but still I don't think it's a valid reason to accept it.

I also don't see Gaspar as the solution, but it would at least help the ones in deep troubles right now. They better adapt and solve their problems one by one, I agree. Other members beat that beast easily, including me and I always say I am not a good raider. When I can solve it, others can do also.

I am not your enemy in this topic, but remember there is more than only top alliances that have availability of pro boosts that solve most problems.

Edited by Dena4

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7 hours ago, ARREBIMBA said:

You need to help them with all tools available to them (including the stuff that they don't have, but should already have).
Celestial Phoebe is essentialy a broken combo problem, not a boost or balance problem. That's why I don't usually tell people to change alliances for dealing with Phoebe.

However, if they have a broken combo, I will point it out and try to help there. If they should be using Shield but aren't, then it must be said.

 

Well Shield is not a must if you have other stuff (experience, items, etc). But if you're starting out, Shield is the most important spell for you.

You don't need monks against Phoebe, but yes, they also help when you're still getting used to facing Phoebe, even without Mad Monk.

 

Of course I have, it happens everytime I mess up. Have you seen what happens when you allow an Howl to howl in the vicinity of an army of skeletons? It's the same thing, it's not exclusive to Phoebe.

 

Why should knights and archers of a mediam team be able to easily beat a Phoebe from a max lvl player? Am I missing something here?

When I say boosted Knights are effective, I mean in a balanced situation, like a lvl105 player raiding another lvl105 player with a lvl1-2 Phoebe. It dies in 5 seconds if you play it right, we all know that. It dies in even less time against boosted Archers (only elite boost, even without the pro archer).

Of course a lvl105 player going against a lvl130 player is something else entirely. It's obviously harder.

 

Gaspar is not a viable solution and I would not recommend it to anyone.

Why do you make so many explanations? 

 

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On 2/10/2019 at 8:46 AM, ARREBIMBA said:

Nowadays, thanks to the massification of the Phoebe beast, you have to adapt much earlier, at 2500-3000 trophies, against defenses that aren't maxed yet.

Ahem.... hey ARREBIMBA, you’re wrong!

;)

 

F8547398-851A-4FCB-9534-1A4B3CE40321.png

2500-3000?!? Whaaaaat???

Can one of you pro’s make a brand new account, then make your Phoebe dies in 2 seconds video? As you can see above there are plenty of Phoebe to fight at the brand new noob level. 

We all get it that not only will our play style evolve to super pro. But more importantly...

SO WILL OUR GEAR!  And we get to spam hammerstrike every 2 seconds... And Phoebe can’t hurt us with our max’d Heal ring. And in our top tier alliance where all our troops are boosted Phoebe will be a big joke. 

Until then, 95% rest of population doesn’t have any of these things. Our noob play style is limited to the tools at hand..

Gaspar has been a good fix for me though!  Dunno if brand new players have gaspar yet but.... if they stick around, they’ll see Phoebe die in 2 seconds...

Edited by shoop

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To be honest with you @shoop, a player at 600 trophies with that kind of base won't have a strong Phoebe. First off, the alliance he's in isn't big, meaning it's a level 1 Phoebe, and then the player is probably level 40 or 50. If that's your account that you took that picture with, then I think you should be able to beat that Phoebe, especially if you have a good pal to go along with you. I mean, Cannons and Arblasters, even non-boosted ones like you have, mixed with Donkey, and then even a pal like Tammy to heal troops. Very easy to defeat Phoebe

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@shoop At a moment people must stop thinking all advise come from top players here and we don't know what going on in low and medium. Maybe some at level 100-130 but we all know how that work in low and medium range. I have rebuild my account around April and have repass by low level again. So if we say all depend of what you use, what you do will make you defeat Phoebe or be defeated by Phoebe

I have kill my first Phoebe around level 50-60 without guardians. So since guardians with 4.0. Its really easy now to deal with Phoebe. Specially at low level. Phoebe is just at level 1 nothing more.

I repeat if you have miss my post earlier

1.Whatever you use Donkey,Gaspar or Sultan just keep it and use it when you reach Phoebe

2.Defense is the key. Monk,Healing aura, heal spells, shield or whatever support stuffs will help you defeat Phoebe

3.Good gear is the only thing you need. So find higher leadership, start morale, HP gear, speed,etc... the best gear you have the best you will defeat Phoebe

and repeat

today with 4.5.0 I have defeat over 10 Phoebe without problem.

Practice is the key. I was killed by Phoebe over month when I was level 50-60 until I stop be stubborn and attack in a Rambo style. I have use my head and take time to upgrade my stuffs, upgrade my gear and try different combo.

Test is the key. for me I have tested all pal and its Kaiser who help me destroy Phoebe combine with Sultan. i have notice my chance is up if I use Monk and Black Magic.

test and test again and again. Until you find what work the best for you

 

Edited by Warriornator

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17 minutes ago, AwesomestKnightest said:

To be honest with you @shoop, a player at 600 trophies with that kind of base won't have a strong Phoebe. First off, the alliance he's in isn't big, meaning it's a level 1 Phoebe, and then the player is probably level 40 or 50. If that's your account that you took that picture with, then I think you should be able to beat that Phoebe, especially if you have a good pal to go along with you. I mean, Cannons and Arblasters, even non-boosted ones like you have, mixed with Donkey, and then even a pal like Tammy to heal troops. Very easy to defeat Phoebe

Sorry I disagree AK. This player Leadership is at 600 trophy level too. He doesn’t get to fight Level 1 Phoebe with an army of cannons and arblasters, but a handful instead.

just make your new account. So you can remember what it’s like. Then make that Phoebe dies in 2 seconds video, with practically no gear! Let’s see this level 50 player rock it!

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8 minutes ago, Warriornator said:

@shoop At a moment people must stop thinking all advise come from top players here and we don't know what going on in low and medium. Maybe some at level 100-130 but we all know how that work in low and medium range. I have rebuild my account around April and have repass by low level again. So if we say all depend of what you use, what you do will make you defeat Phoebe or be defeated by Phoebe

I have kill my first Phoebe around level 50-60 without guardians. So since guardians with 4.0. Its really easy now to deal with Phoebe. Specially at low level. Phoebe is just at level 1 nothing more.

I repeat if you have miss my post earlier

1.Whatever you use Donkey,Gaspar or Sultan just keep it and use it when you reach Phoebe

2.Defense is the key. Monk,Healing aura, heal spells, shield or whatever support stuffs will help you defeat Phoebe

3.Good gear is the only thing you need. So find higher leadership, start morale, HP gear, speed,etc... the best gear you have the best you will defeat Phoebe

and repeat

today with 4.5.0 I have defeat over 10 Phoebe without problem.

Practice is the key. I was killed by Phoebe over month when I was level 50-60 until I stop be stubborn and attack in a Rambo style. I have use my head and take time to upgrade my stuffs, upgrade my gear and try different combo.

Test is the key. for me I have tested all pal and its Kaiser who help me destroy Phoebe combine with Sultan. i have notice my chance is up if I use Monk and Black Magic.

test and test again and again. Until you find what work the best for you

 

I don’t know any level 50 players who have monks let alone black magic

I guess.. It wasn’t so long ago that I can’t remember my first Phoebe encounter. I thought it was a savage Tammy and was like, “WTH just happened?!”

Even my Gaspar fails vs some Phoebe’s. And I chock it up to I’m weak!  I don’t have end game gear. I shouldn’t win every single fight, nor would I want to!

but... I have adapted! I have changed my attack plan based on 1 thing only! The enemy defense maze, towers, troops... who cares...  My attack strategy is for Phoebe only...

in the end that will flip. And player defenses will make my attack strategy change and Phoebe won’t matter. 

But for the middle! It’s all about Phoebe. And very soon, even now... the beginning to?!!

how is that ok???

Edited by shoop

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6 minutes ago, shoop said:

I don’t know any level 50 players who have monks let alone black magic

I have never mention Monk and Black Magic are needed for a level 50. I have say later the best is Monk and Black Magic. More faster you unlock them and more easy Phoebe become.For a level 50 the only thing you need is a good pal level 6+ and good gear. All Uber gears. That's it. Need nothing else.

Monk is possible at level 50. Nothing is impossible in this game. Maybe not black magic but Monk level 1 or 2 is possible if you upgrade non stop your stuffs without too much gain XP. Monk is unlockable more easily around level 65-70

its the same principe like Olympus Rising. Griffin and Pheonix can be unlocked at Ascension 60. Really crazy but possible. Some have do it. in General we unlock them around 80-90. So in this kind of game nothing is impossible

Edited by Warriornator

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Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to nerf Phoebe!

i truly want to boost it

I just don’t like that it voids the game of variety, makes starting a clan impossible while players hunt Phoebe clans, and definitely feel it shouldn’t be in the beginning of the game

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I don't know why people find it so much complicated to understand Phoebe she is a Pro Pal. What people expect? Phoebe cost 25K X 2 plus the numbers of a alliance. You need 50 Phoebe to active her. Many alliance still don't have it and stay at 1 or 5 on 50.

I don't see any problem this Pro pal can be sometime really hard to defeat if you don't have the right tools. Congratulations to all alliance who have her in defense. You need a lots of team works to unlock her. i am really sure If Nemesis was so much easy to have it. Everyone will have it in defense. Same thing for Ceres or others. Just in all Pro beast only Phoebe really worth it all the effort.

Flare have said it somewhere. Guardians was introduce to counter Phoebe Beast. A kind of nerf if you prefer. So I don't know why some complain about Phoebe.

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Uh... because it voids the game of variety. Makes retention in my clan difficult. 25 for for lvl1 btw. And is a pro pal/beast that has found its way to the beginning of game

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There is not much variety in beast in defense. We see always Phoebe but I don't see how this voids the game variety. just people use what is better and stronger. If you play by exemple Command and Conquer : Rivals. At the beginning if you have Titan you was able to defeat everyone in GDI. After when you unlock NOD Banshee. Banshee defeat close everyone and so on.. You can play over 20 or 30 games of this style. Defense game or whatever or strategie game or MMORPG. All games have all in commun. People use what is strong. So if we see Phoebe everywhere its because Phoebe its the best nothing else. Nothing have to do with overpowering or else. She is just the best beast

In this game people must start to accept others alliance can have some advantages that others don't. Phoebe give one advantage in defense. Player pay for her so I don't see any problem. Some alliance have put all the effort necessary to have her.

if you play a FPS online and the majority have a gun who can one shooted you. So be it. They have paid for it. If you want the same thing participate in Pro league and give Phoebe to your team. Your alliance will use Phoebe in defense

All of this to explain to everyone here. Variety don't exist in a video game. During a moment at the beginning,in middle or at the end of the game. You will always use the same thing like the others. since 89. I don't remember one game over 1000 I have play who have offer variety. Video games are all based on the same concept. One units,one combo or something is always more used and better than others stuffs. Its the same in all video games

If you search variety. Bad news its not in a video game you will find it

Edited by Warriornator

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We had beasts before Guardians so I look at it as even match if you cant beat a phoebe with hero and spell power alone Flare gave you a push use it! But in my book gasper is over powered lol!! Takes out 2 waves phoebe and 4-6 towers plus! That's a wreaking ball. 

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And you can blame flare for phoebe beast being on low lvl players defenses when over half the top players quit or move to lower alliances! Alliances are struggling for replacement for members and to maintain alliance funds! And with the no doubling up on dungeons and cutting low players out on conquest performance by not allowing back to back wars on tiles!!! Such a shame they just took out a major strategy point!! I though conquest was based off activity not over all power to a player!! Flare kind back tracked on that one huh!!!!!

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On 2/10/2019 at 9:16 PM, ARREBIMBA said:

At the start of the game (lets say until lvl50), troops (which are unboosted) are mostly useless and spells are 90% of your actual fire power. This pushes players to a certain playstyle (relying mostly on their king and their spells) that does not work in the high mid - end game.

That's some solid advice, appreciate you helping players genuinely instead of rubbing salt on their wounds like some players in this thread. Recently my progress hit a block because of relying only on king and spells and some troops it has brought me so far here capable of earning 300-500 medals, but its reached its limits, you are right it doesn't work in high mid to end game, where towers/troops are maxed,well forged and boosted.

There are a few thing I do disagree with you though it takes time to adapt to high end game play, not everyone gets all the gear needed to counter phoebe eg: chloris/heal ring, high morale gear (low level players have not much morale for big troops), high level spells and troops (it takes months to upgrade) and high level troops and spells require gold which low mid players have trouble getting with phoebe everywhere its even frustrating for low mid players. Even I made similar mistake of asking player to level up faster, get this gear that gear upgrade this and that etc. It takes time but now almost everywhere is phoebe defense, making low mid players play miserable, which severely impacts their progress which is needed to counter phoebe.

High end players phoebe is no problem, players with boosted units have no problem, playing with boosted units and non boosted units are totally different, boosted units survive a lot of damage have twice as much health, have faster attack rate, heal more, resist damage, have extra type of attacks etc, non boosted units don't have them wont survive till the players meet phoebe. I have played with boosted monks and non boosted monks, I can feel the difference with boosted monks all I need 4 monks near by to defeat phoebe without much effort, also they are fast& don't die easily, but non boosted monks are killed easily, guiding them is pain and they don't have good attack rate only thing is they heal so the hero and pal defeat phoebe (I'm using this strategy as I don't have boosted units and my troops and spells aren't forged enough (till then this method works for me 8 out of 10 times against defeating phoebe against players with 300-500 medals (except for some bases which my strategy is weak)), it takes time to adapt to new methods which is in progress for me (hoping it should work).

Unlike other beasts, it takes so much time adapting the game-play just for this "one beast" that's why suggesting combos and other ideas even though very good, will be frowned upon. These days almost every defense has Phoebe and is increasing, the numbers don't lie.

The irony here is most players who says phoebe is not overpowered is using Phoebe, why not use growl, show some respect to the opinion you are making, live up to your words why use a beast that dies in seconds to defend your castle, why cant you choose another pro beast instead? (I'm not pointing finger at anyone, but just making a genuine question). Phoebe is OP to low mid level players, denying it just shows lack of understanding of what low/ mid level players go through (especially in an alliance without boosts).

Some screenshots of Phoebe being over powered (just a simple test with max unforged knights + max unforged shield spell against a mid low level player) compared to a defense with Archimedes of a player in the similar range with the same knights and shield.

My Stats + Battling Archimedes + Battling Phoebe (check the time remaining between screenshots to see how powerful is phoebe) - just to show a mid level player will not have maxed forged troops or spells or high end gear (its in progress), yet have to face phoebe. Anyone can disagree but be nice about it, as I'm not looking for you vs me type of discussion, its about problems vs solutions.

 

 

 

 

stats.png

Archimedes beast.png

Battle Phoebe.png

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1 hour ago, Surviva said:

That's some solid advice, appreciate you helping players genuinely instead of rubbing salt on their wounds like some players in this thread. Recently my progress hit a block because of relying only on king and spells and some troops it has brought me so far here capable of earning 300-500 medals, but its reached its limits, you are right it doesn't work in high mid to end game, where towers/troops are maxed,well forged and boosted.

Let me just clarify one thing regarding this: relying mostly on king and spells can work in late game, but it requires well forged spells (+60, +80, etc), top items, high lvl pals (lvl 9-10) and maybe even a couple of very strong Pro/Conquest/War boosts. Since these are not available to most people, I usually do not recommend this strategy. (so please do not take this into consideration for the rest of my post)

A while ago I was in your position. I used to play with the Kaiser pal and I thought it was great. It took me up to 4500-4700 trophies but then I hit a wall. I couldn't beat lvl1 Phoebe or high lvl Howls. I changed to Ceres (very OP back then), completely revamped my playstyle (added Shield and Toxic Cloud, focused on keeping my army alive, mostly relying on army size to win) and a month later I was at +5000 trophies and even attacking some guys from the top3 alliances. It was night and day.

 

I know there's a huge gold problem in the mid game. It takes a lot of effort (manually checking tons of players in stronger alliances) to keep your workers busy. That's one of the reasons why I'm happy that Flare is bringing regular Festivals back and twice a month Ninjas. That will certainly make life easier for those in the mid game when it comes to gold farming.

 

1 hour ago, Surviva said:

Unlike other beasts, it takes so much time adapting the game-play just for this "one beast" that's why suggesting combos and other ideas even though very good, will be frowned upon. These days almost every defense has Phoebe and is increasing, the numbers don't lie.

The strategy to beat Phoebe is the same strategy to beat any other beast. But here's the catch: while other beasts are very soft at lower lvls (and you really only have to worry unless they're pretty high lvl, like lvl8+ Howl), Phoebe is relentless even at lvl1.

This is why the Phoebe beast is forcing players to adapt their playstyle much sooner in the game. What used to be a wall at 4000-4500 trophies, is now at a much lower trophy range (2500-3000 and it will keep dropping because more and more alliances are working hard to unlock Phoebe).

However, even though Phoebe is merciless against players that do not follow the usual strategy, it will die as fast as any other beast if you do follow it and don't mess up.

If you don't have a big army, Phoebe will eat you up. It's that simple.

If you have a big army, Phoebe (even a lvl5-6 Phoebe from a lvl130 player) will die just as fast as any other beast. It won't even have time to cast a 2nd Armageddon.

Use Toxic Cloud (with forged +3s slowdown) to give you a better chance for now.
 

1 hour ago, Surviva said:

Some screenshots of Phoebe being over powered (just a simple test with max unforged knights + max unforged shield spell against a mid low level player) compared to a defense with Archimedes of a player in the similar range with the same knights and shield.

My Stats + Battling Archimedes + Battling Phoebe (check the time remaining between screenshots to see how powerful is phoebe) - just to show a mid level player will not have maxed forged troops or spells or high end gear (its in progress), yet have to face phoebe. Anyone can disagree but be nice about it, as I'm not looking for you vs me type of discussion, its about problems vs solutions.

The lvl1 Phoebe is much stronger than other lvl1 beasts, there's no doubt about that. But it's a pro beast, so that's expected.

You really need boosted Knights, they're great! It's the cheapest offensive boost and Knights are very cheap/fast to forge.

 

Having said that, keep in mind that Flare already nerfed beasts of low lvl kings. If Flare wants to nerf them again (or focus on nerfing only Phoebe for low level kings), that's fine. But it would be a shame if that nerf included low lvl Phoebes (lvl 1-2-3) or high lvl players (110+).

Edited by ARREBIMBA

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