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Celstial Phoebe Is Over Powered

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I believe it is a problem that the Celestial Phoebe is over powered.  It is evident by the number of people who us the Celestial Phoebo in their defense and the extreme difficulty in killing it, that something needs to be done.  Maybe things change at higher levels, but between its use of Armageddon and the difficulty killing the beast because of its healing power.  It seems over powered and I hope something is done to correct the situation.

Player: Shorsty

Level: 108

 

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difficulty is all a matter of using correct boost and troops.

My alliance recently switched to boost archers and since I use them, I understand why players say that phoebe is beaten in around 2 seconds. Before I always needed 5-15 seconds and then that beast is dangerous. When you use archers, just push phoebe towards them, bye phoebe within one or two shots of a power archer. 

I now even can start raiding phoebe beasts without shield, without boosted archers you need to use shield and troops like knights or ogres to beat phoebe beast, with boosted archers it's a matter of stealing candy of a baby.

And nope, I didn't forge archers a lot I must say. Only stat I did decently forge is range, health not a single forge so far, and damage less than 10 forges. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Shorsty said:

I believe it is a problem that the Celestial Phoebe is over powered.  It is evident by the number of people who us the Celestial Phoebo in their defense and the extreme difficulty in killing it, that something needs to be done.  Maybe things change at higher levels, but between its use of Armageddon and the difficulty killing the beast because of its healing power.  It seems over powered and I hope something is done to correct the situation.

Player: Shorsty

Level: 108

 

Hi Shorsty,

There was a plan not quite too long ago to nerf Phoebe, but after community feedback this was postponed. We still look at Phoebe closely though.

You can read more about it here:

And the original idea for the nerf here:

 

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Phoebe is only over powered if you do not work out how to kill it quickly,  spawn insta cannons as it approaches and push Phoebe around as the cannons kill it. I have had more problems with primal howl which goes into crazy mode.

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phoebe is not that hard to kill believe me , my combo is knights ogre wolves BS shield and FS i don't have any spell that deals dmg and yet i take it down in 10s just push it to your army scream  cast shield to protect your knights and let them do the work ogre will kill it fast with the help of knights and the howl effect easy for protecting your army and faster kill push it around your army stop for 1 sec each time so your ogre get a hit on it  :) hope this helps , i'm using aska or irmgard , as an  irmgard (mine lvl 6 not even that high) can take from 10 to 20% health with the special ability my hero lvl is 107 my troph is around 4k to 4.2k hope this help 

 On the other hand as wych said

6 hours ago, Wych said:

Phoebe is only over powered if you do not work out how to kill it quickly,  spawn insta cannons as it approaches and push Phoebe around as the cannons kill it. I have had more problems with primal howl which goes into crazy mode.

Primal howl is a bet hard to kill specially if the waves are well done 1 ogre can stun all your army over and over because of the howl effect  

conclusion: it is not about being overpowered it is about knowing how to defeat it and working hard on your attack combo forge them max them and you'll see good result 

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It is overpowered compared to other beasts but how killable is it depends on your setup, beast's actual strength (beast+owner level), where you encounter it and whether or not it has wolves around. I've had my explosive archers kill phoebes in two seconds, I've been eradicated by a howled phoebe in two seconds. I'm not saying anything new here, except that you should avoid fighting it across lanes at all costs, especially if you don't have range damage (but that will be nullified as soon as it heals anyway). Get it where you want and it'll go down well enough. Unless it's far too strong - it often can be better to leave it alone and keep going, especially if you have Aska or Janus to rebuild your "guard".

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18 hours ago, Dena4 said:

difficulty is all a matter of using correct boost and troops.

My alliance recently switched to boost archers and since I use them, I understand why players say that phoebe is beaten in around 2 seconds. Before I always needed 5-15 seconds and then that beast is dangerous. When you use archers, just push phoebe towards them, bye phoebe within one or two shots of a power archer. 

I now even can start raiding phoebe beasts without shield, without boosted archers you need to use shield and troops like knights or ogres to beat phoebe beast, with boosted archers it's a matter of stealing candy of a baby.

And nope, I didn't forge archers a lot I must say. Only stat I did decently forge is range, health not a single forge so far, and damage less than 10 forges. 

Nice answer! ;) 

That's a big change since the discussions on the topics about the nerf ?

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18 hours ago, Shorsty said:

I believe it is a problem that the Celestial Phoebe is over powered.  It is evident by the number of people who us the Celestial Phoebo in their defense and the extreme difficulty in killing it, that something needs to be done.  Maybe things change at higher levels, but between its use of Armageddon and the difficulty killing the beast because of its healing power.  It seems over powered and I hope something is done to correct the situation.

Player: Shorsty

Level: 108

 

What changes at higher levels is players already learned how to correctly deal with Celestial Phoebe. Once you use effective stuff and learn how easy it can be to kill the beast, it will completely change the way you see Celestial Phoebe.

I highly recommend you to read the discussions about it on the links posted by Madlen.

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To be honest was having problem with phoebe while trying different combos, and even though my archer is like +80 forged, combo archer ogre wolf is not working well for me when Phoebe is defending beast.was using over 4 months this combo and last 2 months or so I am back to WOK and Phoebe is now manageable. But Phoebe is OP when compared to other beasts. So I would say that FG need to improve other beasts and not to touch Phoebe because she is Pro beast.

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I still agree something needs to be done about Phoebe but I'm not sure exactly what to do about it.  Phoebe alone has created I believe some undesirable changes in the aspect of the game.  I don't have too much trouble with Phoebe and have seen where my troops kill it on corners or even cross lanes when it is not attacking so I never face it.  However, if I don't time it right Phoebe can destroy me which I believe is the way it should be.  Occasionally Bucky, Kaiser, Fritz, etc. can be a problem if I don't handle them correctly.  But there are 2 very important things Phoebe has changed or contributes to which I believe is bad for the game.

The #1 problem with Phoebe is too many players and Alliances rely on Phoebe for their defense.  Phoebe can take a crappy defense and a mediocre Alliance and make them far better than they actually are just by adding the beast.  One single beast, or other single variable, should not have this ability to impact a game so much.

The other problem I see is too many players change Alliances trying to find Phoebe.  This is not new as previously these players were always looking for something "free" they did not have to work for.  Great if you can find it but doesn't help those of us who help build an Alliance and willing to work for it.  I recently changed Alliances and Phoebe was way down the list of what I was looking for in my new Alliance.  BTW, my new Alliance does NOT have Phoebe but I will help them get the beast.  I believe there are a couple of ways to tell the "moocher" but that's another topic.

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4 hours ago, Domikick said:

If Phoebe is too strong, you are too weak

you are right.

But the thing is phoebe is getting upper hand among all the beast (may be not if u take example of top allies who uses howl more)

today we had two front war. I did 12 attacks in total. every single base has phoebe in it. ( fun fact : everyone including me in our ally also using the same phoebe beast )

what I believe is there should be a variety of beast in defence, for that flare should equalize the powers of beasts. plz nerf phoebe fast( I have no problem facing it)

they are adding more pals (beasts) for more variation in game but their incapability of making everything equal is bringing this problem.

 

anyone answer me how often you guys see these following beasts in defence: (this should give a clear idea)

1. primal growl

2. celestial ceres

3. savage tammy

4. twisted archimedes

5. primal howl

6. voracious eldrak

7. voracious nidogg

8. savage irmgard

9. celestial phoebe

10. awakened aki

11. awakened aska

12. celestial janus

13. celestial eris

14. vicious bucky

15. untamed kaiser

16. ravenous bela

17. frosty fritz

from my experience, it is 99% of the time phoebe only....rest 1% I see howl , Kaiser mainly

 

 

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2 hours ago, KamakshyaP said:

anyone answer me how often you guys see these following beasts in defence: (this should give a clear idea) 

99% howl, 1% Phoebe. That's outside of war. In war it's about 50/50. But in general, in my trophy range, it's mostly howl

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8 hours ago, Domikick said:

99% howl, 1% Phoebe. That's outside of war. In war it's about 50/50. But in general, in my trophy range, it's mostly howl

Ok still...it's like Phoebe or howl...other beasts are just chilling in the cabin?

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21 hours ago, KamakshyaP said:

anyone answer me how often you guys see these following beasts in defence: (this should give a clear idea)

1. primal growl

2. celestial ceres

3. savage tammy

4. twisted archimedes

5. primal howl

6. voracious eldrak

7. voracious nidogg

8. savage irmgard

9. celestial phoebe

10. awakened aki

11. awakened aska

12. celestial janus

13. celestial eris

14. vicious bucky

15. untamed kaiser

16. ravenous bela

17. frosty fritz

from my experience, it is 99% of the time phoebe only....rest 1% I see howl , Kaiser mainly

 

On normal raids it's mostly Primal Howl, on war raids it's mostly Celestial Phoebe, probably because we were never on war against the alliances with high level Primal Howl. All the other beasts I don't find very often, and when I do I barely notice them doing anything.

Now, how many beasts in the game are actually useful at defensing a base. How many do you really have to fight against, and not just disappear before you can even notice?

The only beasts I really have to fight against are Primal Howl and Celestial Phoebe, and maybe Frosty Fritz too
And I think that tells if the balancing should really bring the most used beasts down, or the other beasts up.

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On 9/22/2018 at 1:19 AM, G1nasis said:

phoebe is not that hard to kill believe me , my combo is knights ogre wolves BS shield and FS i don't have any spell that deals dmg and yet i take it down in 10s just push it to your army scream  cast shield to protect your knights and let them do the work ogre will kill it fast with the help of knights and the howl effect easy for protecting your army and faster kill push it around your army stop for 1 sec each time so your ogre get a hit on it  :) hope this helps , i'm using aska or irmgard , as an  irmgard (mine lvl 6 not even that high) can take from 10 to 20% health with the special ability my hero lvl is 107 my troph is around 4k to 4.2k hope this help 

 On the other hand as wych said

Primal howl is a bet hard to kill specially if the waves are well done 1 ogre can stun all your army over and over because of the howl effect  

conclusion: it is not about being overpowered it is about knowing how to defeat it and working hard on your attack combo forge them max them and you'll see good result 

The Primal Howl you are talking about here is at higher level but the Phoebe level which we are talking about here is of 1 or 2 level. So specially in lower/middle/ level alliances where max level of beast is not achieved Phoebe is the best bet. 

 

This is why my argument goes in favor of nerfing the phoebe beast.

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On 9/22/2018 at 6:56 PM, KingStantheMan said:

I still agree something needs to be done about Phoebe but I'm not sure exactly what to do about it.  Phoebe alone has created I believe some undesirable changes in the aspect of the game.  I don't have too much trouble with Phoebe and have seen where my troops kill it on corners or even cross lanes when it is not attacking so I never face it.  However, if I don't time it right Phoebe can destroy me which I believe is the way it should be.  Occasionally Bucky, Kaiser, Fritz, etc. can be a problem if I don't handle them correctly.  But there are 2 very important things Phoebe has changed or contributes to which I believe is bad for the game.

The #1 problem with Phoebe is too many players and Alliances rely on Phoebe for their defense.  Phoebe can take a crappy defense and a mediocre Alliance and make them far better than they actually are just by adding the beast.  One single beast, or other single variable, should not have this ability to impact a game so much.

The other problem I see is too many players change Alliances trying to find Phoebe.  This is not new as previously these players were always looking for something "free" they did not have to work for.  Great if you can find it but doesn't help those of us who help build an Alliance and willing to work for it.  I recently changed Alliances and Phoebe was way down the list of what I was looking for in my new Alliance.  BTW, my new Alliance does NOT have Phoebe but I will help them get the beast.  I believe there are a couple of ways to tell the "moocher" but that's another topic.

Even I do not have much trouble with Phoebe but some players creating a base keeping in mind only Phoebe beast as how they can utilize it the most while it is a tower defense game not phobe defense game..

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2 hours ago, vikasbhardwaj said:

Even I do not have much trouble with Phoebe but some players creating a base keeping in mind only Phoebe beast as how they can utilize it the most while it is a tower defense game not phobe defense game..

Exactly my main point!  Yes I can beat Phoebe regularly at my level.  But when only a single variable has such a devastating impact on a game so that nothing else matters then it is too much.  Again, I'm not sure what to do about it but I feel it is ruining the game for many who now do not play as much if at all.

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Phoebe is not OP. Imo, it's only OP if you're facing a base that's much higher level than you are and in an alliance that has Phoebe at high level. I beat Phoebe every time I face him. Now, I understand that the difficulty is lower at my level, but I don't remember the last time Phoebe killed me

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You play correctly = you win
You play incorrectly = you lose
That's not an OP beast, that's a beast that is working.

The only unbalanced thing about Celestial Phoebe isn't exactly something on the beast itself, but the effect Celestial Phoebe gets when it's boosted, that seems just crazy to me. So I guess I wouldn't mind supporting a change to that.
All it takes is 1 howling and the beast brings total madness to the raid. I guess that's the only thing that should indeed be looked into.

 

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Absolutely agree with Darkerion. Phoebe as it is now is a rewarding beast.

The only thing that should be done is increasing the effectiveness of other beasts, to not make phoebe the go to choice.

For instance Phoebe is a pro beast and therefore it is so much more difficult to level up. And therefore a level 6-7 Normal Beast should be about as powerful as Phoebe level 2, obviously with tweaks to suit the corresponding Beast. For Instance tammy with a better healing power and general tankiness but not more damage, as it is a support/heal type beast. Irmgard with higher spell range and maybe allow the it's ability to actually hit things on the other side. As it is right now Irmgard is practically useless unless the enemy is on the same lane.

The point is, don't nerf Phoebe just make the others more useful and appealing. So that it actually makes sense to use other beasts than Howl/Phoebe,´ or sometimes Kaiser and Tammy.

Also to make phoebe less of a killing machine just tweak defense beasts, that they can't be affected by howls. Only howl beast should be able to boost itself.

I think this is a good balance for all, as it's divided, some say pheobe is fine and others say it's op in comparison to others. So by making others more useful we should be able to see more diversity.

Edited by ShiroKo

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