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[Feedback thread for] - Live Server Update16.11.18 - several changes

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How about we add Conquest building resource collection to the Collect All resources button (e.g. food/gold/pearls) on the main screen?  We have a big issue with participation in my alliance - but if this was added then even if people are not actually participating in the Conquest mode, they would still help out the alliance by giving resources.  This would need to only kick in if the cooldown for donating a resource was up - unless that cooldown was removed (which I'd be in favor of).  

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That would be fantastic indeed, collecting resources from players for conquest with a single press of a button. Now it's annoying that we constantly must ask to donate those resources and wait for players to actually do so. 

It would also be great if we could set a research path to follow and start research automatically for the chosen path.

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8 hours ago, SHaase said:

How about we add Conquest building resource collection to the Collect All resources button (e.g. food/gold/pearls) on the main screen?  We have a big issue with participation in my alliance - but if this was added then even if people are not actually participating in the Conquest mode, they would still help out the alliance by giving resources.  This would need to only kick in if the cooldown for donating a resource was up - unless that cooldown was removed (which I'd be in favor of).   

I have forwarded the idea.  Not sure about feasibility because it could only be triggered for people that can participate in Conquest, and needs to be removed once a person leaves an alliance and so on but I also see how it would make the life of alliances easier that can participate in Conquest.

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About researching. First research in our tier(second highest) costs already over 2 million gold and 42k wisdom (almost half of our wisdom) and we should be able to research every 6 hours? That won't work. Alliances will have to spend a lot of gems in order to research more. Now it's even more pay to win

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At third tier it's 1.575M gold and 33600 Wisdom for first research. It's already more than 33% of our total wisdom. To make it even more crazy, later even wisdom costs of 50400.

It's that we did upgrade our conquest buildings all up to 7, but even then this is way too much. Lowest research takes 16800 (just 2-3 in total), while most of them take either 33600 or 50400. Alliances with conquest level 6 in our map are literally out of wisdom after 2 researches! (Wow are we lucky, with some resource donation, we can do three researches before we run out of wisdom for a while)

Now let's see what this means for our layer/tier. Let's say we follow upper path of research tree.

  • Energy Costs: movement -30% -> 33600 ==> Why this one is only start point? We must research this and have no alternative, we can't skip it.
  • Cooldown (builders) -15% -> 50400  (84000 total) ==> An alliance with alliance university level 6 will run out of research, they need to donate 37600 wisdom before they can continue researching next one!
  • Upgrade Costs (Watchtowers) -10% -> 33600 (117600 total) ==> University level 7 will be able to continue if members donate 17600  in time. When average wisdom level of members is 5, that will be close.  We probably need to wait a couple of hours.
  • Max Energy +25% -> 33600 (151200 total) ==> Totally impossible to research for us without waiting, the previous research already put members in a cooldown of a day, this will most likely take 1-2 days before it's available. 56 members need to have level 7 building to refill it within a day (we don't have that many members with alchemist tower level 7!). 
  • Upgrade speed (Watchtowers) -15% -> 50400 (201800 total). An utopia to start this before day 3/4. On day 5 no longer needed.
  • Upgrade costs (Watchtowers) -10% -> 33600 (253200 total). Well, only the ones with members wasting gems will be able to research that at our tier.

We don't know research time per research, but when it's 6 hours, we will run out of resources after third one for sure. I even leave gold costs out of the discussion, it's also not cheap. The research definitely is way to expensive. Only payers will be able to research more.

A simple question, can keenflare give us the information about expected level of conquest buildings (alliance plus average level for players) for each tier regarding wisdom? In our tier most teams have it at level 5-7. I suspect that keenflare expects us to have level 8+ alliance buildings and even then it's not doable.  Members don't have max conquest buildings unlocked, so refilling the alliance resources isn't as fast at expected.

Wisdom costs are really to high. Research should take max 20-25% of alliance university, not more than 50%. and lower costs should be around 10%. Then some wisdom can be done.

Edited by Dena4

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On 11/16/2018 at 6:48 AM, Madlen said:

 

  •  Tech tree Wisdom cost change

Alliances can only spend ~60% of wisdom cost as compared to the previous Conquest. Therefore, Alliances will not be able to develop 100% of the techs. This should further emphasize the function of the tech TREE, meaning it is asked to decide by the Alliance which tech is most valuable to them.

We hope you will welcome these changes and look forward to receiving your feedback below.

 

Really?  This has only affected about 1% of the alliances. 

The costs are still the same, so this is still a Pay to Win feature.

With the starting wisdom and expected wisdom donated I'm expecting to be able to get 5 techs, there is a library, but I doubt will would be able give a whole tech by the end of the conquest.

If the wisdom costs were at least 1/2 the current values then we'd have a tiny bit of choice, but right now the whole tree is still useless for all the alliances that don't want to Pay to Win.

We have 29 possible tech, your ~60% max is about 17 of them, and almost all Alliances will only get 5 max, so that's only 17%.  

Still disappointing, that the research has been a fail from the beginning.   So many other aspects have been improved.

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Hi, sorry to hear that the changes were not received well by you so far. I checked with the devs to gather some feedback to your comments.

For now, I can say that the total costs to develop all techs in the techtree stayed the same, but that you can only develop ~60% of the techs because of the amount of time required to develop them. So compared to previous events the maximum wisdom an Alliance can spend was reduced by about 40%. Furthermore, the techs in this tree give you higher boni (percentage wise) However, of course, I will continue to forward your feedback to the development team and we will watch the wisdom costs very closely.

If you have further feedback please leave it below or if it is regarding a different aspect of the Conquest that was not changed with the latest LSU, please open a thread in the Conquest section.

Thank you!

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14 minutes ago, Madlen said:

Hi, sorry to hear that the changes were not received well by you so far. I checked with the devs to gather some feedback to your comments.

For now, I can say that the total costs to develop all techs in the techtree stayed the same, but that you can only develop ~60% of the techs because of the amount of time required to develop them. So compared to previous events the maximum wisdom an Alliance can spend was reduced by about 40%. Furthermore, the techs in this tree give you higher boni (percentage wise) However, of course, I will continue to forward your feedback to the development team and we will watch the wisdom costs very closely.

If you have further feedback please leave it below or if it is regarding a different aspect of the Conquest that was not changed with the latest LSU, please open a thread in the Conquest section.

Thank you!

It was a nice change, but in practice it really only afected VL and maybe a couple other alliances (RL? Todes? Japan Team X? Les Francais? Drachen Order?).

For the rest of the alliances it's all pretty much the same. The wisdom costs are still super high and we can only research about 5-6-7 techs.

 

Even if an alliance has 65 players with lvl8 Laboratory doing perfect donations (a full donation right when the Lab gets full), how many techs would it be possible to research without spending gems?

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31 minutes ago, ARREBIMBA said:

It was a nice change, but in practice it really only afected VL and maybe a couple other alliances (RL? Todes? Japan Team X? Les Francais? Drachen Order?).

For the rest of the alliances it's all pretty much the same. The wisdom costs are still super high and we can only research about 5-6-7 techs.

 

Even if an alliance has 65 players with lvl8 Laboratory doing perfect donations (a full donation right when the Lab gets full), how many techs would it be possible to research without spending gems?

They should do math and calculate exactly that for each tier. Calculate original wisdom in university plus subtract research costs. Then when next research can be done, do same math. Hold reckon with realistic personal wisdom donations, so non maxed. Do you run out of wisdom within one day, then the costs are way too high. A level 9-10 university should cover the costs for first day on highest tier, one second highest a level 7-8 university should cover the costs for that first day.

On my tier (third one a level 6-7) university should cover costs of first day. 

Who comes up with the idea of costs 33%-50% per research (current research needs 6 hours) ? That's very unrealistic. And when we donate in ideal situation, we can refill our university max 50%. So one research can be done (needing 6 hours). Wisdom costs are a factor 3-4 too high.

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On 11/17/2018 at 1:38 AM, ARREBIMBA said:

There was a poll and most people voted for daily donations, even though there was mathematical evidence provided that suggested the 2 day donation cycle was better overall.

The players voted and Flare listened, so we can't really complain much about it now.

Which shows no one really has a clue about how to fix conquest mode. A perfectly working game mechanic goes to a nonsense poll and takes up developers time only to worsen the game experience. At a cost of 5 gems to advance donation, 24 hour donation was virtually free and already a possibility. Now players that don't login every 24h waste resources that could be accumulating. Plus all the math people did for free. (Now that I mentioned maths, it really feels like they throw the numbers at us to figure out what makes sense and what doesn't)

Meanwhile, research tree is as broke as always. And within 4 hours of gameplay we already stroke 2 deals to avoid having to put up with all this. Again.

....
 

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On 11/16/2018 at 6:48 PM, Madlen said:

We have received a lot of feedback of the community to adjust the donation cycle for Troops, Wisdom and Stones to be shorter because of the shortened Conquest time. We have decided to go with a 24 hour donation cycle. That means from now on it will be possible for players to donate these resources every 24 hours. As a consequence, the storage capacities and the current resources in storage have been reduced by 50%.

With this change I thought the cost will be reduced too but actually no instead the cost rise up from last conquest.

How about player can free donate after 24 hours with 50% storage? Means there's no reduction storage capacity. We spent a lot of gems to upgrade conquest building but then flare only reduced it's capacity. This case will affect 1st day when all alliance spend a lot of resources (especially troops and stones). We need a lot resources to be donated but then we can only donate half of the usual amount. This is just like flare forced us to spend gems on the resources which I don't like it.

E.g. Player A have level 7 conquest building Alchemist's Laboratory with 1200 wisdom that can fill up (full) every 48 hours. However, that player can donate without gems (free) after the wisdom reach 600 or after 24 hours. The rest rule is the same, you can donate immediately with 5 gems or filling up the storage with gems (depend on current percentage).

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Well, we all pointed out having less wisdom (and other resources) with a shorter donation period due to a decreased initial donations and players not donating regularily. Most players doing the survey didn't/couldn't read the feedback since nobody was able able to post anything below the survey. Now Flare listened to the players' "biased" feedback which actually worsened our situation.

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The first day of conquest is over and I have to say that it's one of the worst conquests, if not the worst so far.

Like mentioned, research costs are too high, while cutting our personal conquest buildings storage in half. Which doesn't only affect the research but also the building of watchtowers. After one day, we are already out of stones and can't really build anything, unless we all spend gems. AFTER ONE DAY! Last conquest we were able to build towers from day one to the last day, without breaks. Even multiple level 3 or 4 towers without running out of resources, but now it's completely different

Also the map is terrible and boring. Mostly windmills which doesn't give us anything except 5 points, but no resources, which also doesn't help us gaining resources

To me, it's all just to suck gems out of all of us. Clearly pay to win more than ever. Cause now you're really forced to spend gems to be able to build towers, which ofc, is essential to win conquest. So now the team who spends the most gems to skip resource donations, is the one who wins. Great conquest

 

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it was very greedy.

Have no idea, what was a point to make it. 

Or they really think we SHOULD pay for win even with no chances to change it

or rhey just dnt care

 

i have nothing about to pay, but i dbt want to feel myself as i SHould do.

bad Madlen and Devs dnt care, but i think it was the answer will be no changes

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1) The changes made due to the new 1 day donation cycle made Conquest worse.

Yes, there was a poll, but it's worse now than it was.

 

2) Research costs are insanely high, again. I mean they're not even close to what they should be. Even with a max lvl University, all you can do is research 2-3 techs.

 

3) The matchmaking is, once again, bad and unfair. It's not random at all, like it should be.

If we're all fighting in the same tier, for the same rewards, we should all be playing with the same rules. No alliance should have any matchmaking benefit. Make it fair, Flare.

Right now, in the top tier, some alliances are being CHOSEN for easier maps, while others are being punished with harder maps. This completely corrupts the competition because there isn't a fair playing ground right now.

 

4) Still on the matchmaking: why does it seem like alliances are being forced into maps (not only but also) based on their "usual Conquest starting corner" ?

My alliance is always on the top left and it seems like we're being placed on maps based on that. Why should that even matter for matchmaking?

It shouldn't. It should be 100% random, but it isn't, which is another evidence of the bad matchmaking system.

Edited by ARREBIMBA

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So far we managed to do an amazing 4 researches (33600, 33600, 33600 and 16800, bringing total on 117600 wisdom spend). At the moment we have around 11k wisdom at the moment.

Next we have three research options, 1 needing 33600 and 2 of them 50400. We need one of 50400 next. We need for sure 2 days minimal to get that as donation (first day we managed to donate 28k). 

Wisdom is indeed way too high. We struggle to even get further. After next research, we can stop hoping to research one more tech. 5 out of 29? That's really a low percentage that can be used. Even with a max alchemist laboratory (720 wisdom), we need 70 members having a maxed building to be able to donate 50k wisdom every day in most ideal situation.  

Only a team that has all ancient libraries on the map can get extra 365 wisdom every 40 minutes per library (547 every hour extra per library).  Realistically we can gain 12k-13k per day by that per library, but that's not very realistic.

 

Edited by Dena4

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31 minutes ago, ARREBIMBA said:

1) The changes made due to the new 1 day donation cycle made Conquest worse.

Yes, there was a poll, but it's worse now than it was.

 

2) Research costs are insanely high, again. I mean they're not even close to what they should be. Even with a max lvl University, all you can do is research 2-3 techs.

 

3) The matchmaking is, once again, bad and unfair. It's not random at all, like it should be.

If we're all fighting in the same tier, for the same rewards, we should all be playing with the same rules. No alliance should have any matchmaking benefit. Make it fair, Flare.

Right now, in the top tier, some alliances are being CHOSEN for easier maps, while others are being punished with harder maps. This completely corrupts the competition because there isn't a fair playing ground right now.

 

4) Still on the matchmaking: why does it seem like alliances are being forced into maps (not only but also) based on their "usual Conquest starting corner" ?

My alliance is always on the top left and it seems like we're being placed on maps based on that. Why should that even matter for matchmaking?

It shouldn't. It should be 100% random, but it isn't, which is another evidence of the bad matchmaking system.

Hahah) true)

seems VL, japan, Rl are always same place:

 

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2 minutes ago, cr1 said:

Hahah) true)

seems VL, japan, Rl are always same place:

 

We most times start bottom left. Only once we were upper right so far.

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On 11/20/2018 at 10:32 PM, SHaase said:

How about we add Conquest building resource collection to the Collect All resources button (e.g. food/gold/pearls) on the main screen?  We have a big issue with participation in my alliance - but if this was added then even if people are not actually participating in the Conquest mode, they would still help out the alliance by giving resources.  This would need to only kick in if the cooldown for donating a resource was up - unless that cooldown was removed (which I'd be in favor of).  

But because those buildings can only send resources when they are full, sometimes it's just not the right time to donate and we gotta wait

A "Collect All" button on main screen could make players donate when the storage is still almost full, which would make them donate only a few of their resources and then have to wait for it to get full to do that correct full donation

BTW, I completely hate the idea of only donating when building storages are full. Wish they would just remove that and let them work like any other production building we have in the game

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14 hours ago, Darkerion said:

But because those buildings can only send resources when they are full, sometimes it's just not the right time to donate and we gotta wait

A "Collect All" button on main screen could make players donate when the storage is still almost full, which would make them donate only a few of their resources and then have to wait for it to get full to do that correct full donation

BTW, I completely hate the idea of only donating when building storages are full. Wish they would just remove that and let them work like any other production building we have in the game

Dsnt matter when the players should sent the resources.

conquest is only for donaters.

for researches you need like 240k wisdome per day. You can donate by alliance like 40, mean you SHOULD donate 200000 per day, its like 50 k grms. Every *****ing day. And its only the wisdome.

but it was made without the brain, cuz the donaters cant be online whole day and cant raid every second. They just earn money.

In wars they can join every time and do their raids, its fine. And they feel they are matter.

They play this game to fix the stress.

now they usual even cant win the raids with huge scrolls. Cuz they are not good raiders. 

My friend, before , joined the game raided 10 times, won all and was happy. He bought like 30 chests per one buy, it was nothing for him.

now he cant with the fight, even with gems.

what a reason was to make game for players without donates but who can raid nonstop and train, but forget about rich guys?

here in conquest donators need only as cash cow. Who can like it? And they are leaving.  Cuz none like this situation whrn tbey should join, spent money and leave even without raids.

I know 2 guys who will leave this game after the conquest..  Usualy they spent like 3-4 k usd per months.

but Flare was so exited with this event, they even forgot it was CASUAL game , and we started to play CASUAL game.

we didnt start to play a game where you SHOULD be online whole day

Edited by cr1

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3 hours ago, cr1 said:

Dsnt matter when the players should sent the resources.

conquest is only for donaters.

for researches you need like 240k wisdome per day. You can donate by alliance like 40, mean you SHOULD donate 200000 per day, its like 50 k grms. Every *****ing day. And its only the wisdome.

but it was made without the brain, cuz the donaters cant be online whole day and cant raid every second. They just earn money.

In wars they can join every time and do their raids, its fine. And they feel they are matter.

They play this game to fix the stress.

now they usual even cant win the raids with huge scrolls. Cuz they are not good raiders. 

My friend, before , joined the game raided 10 times, won all and was happy. He bought like 30 chests per one buy, it was nothing for him.

now he cant with the fight, even with gems.

what a reason was to make game for players without donates but who can raid nonstop and train, but forget about rich guys?

here in conquest donators need only as cash cow. Who can like it? And they are leaving.  Cuz none like this situation whrn tbey should join, spent money and leave even without raids.

I know 2 guys who will leave this game after the conquest..  Usualy they spent like 3-4 k usd per months.

but Flare was so exited with this event, they even forgot it was CASUAL game , and we started to play CASUAL game.

we didnt start to play a game where you SHOULD be online whole day

Yep. This event is mean when you consider time manners 😕 New boost (especially gargoyle) fix defs. The most resonable way is to not donate for resources. Loosing is a part of almost every game and it is very refreshing :) But mayby I am still during def development and don't understand max def players. But from the other side I still enjoy this game :)

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