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Madlen

feedback wanted War blessings distribution

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37 minutes ago, dumpster said:

We had basically the same thread back in August, with basically the same suggestions.

 

We didn't get any feedback from the devs back then. It would have been helpful to have had them explain why they set up the blessings the way they did, if they looked at some of the other options (like the ones suggested) and why they chose not to go one route or the other.

Maybe you could remind the team about this old thread. I summarized the suggestions from the last thread here. They're the same as the current suggestions:

 

Could the devs just give us feedback on what we already wrote instead of making us do it all over again?

 

 

 

 

The last sentence that I gave on the thread was from the devs :) Directly from Captain Morgan. Thanks for the summary in between the thread back then. Back then we were more asking about the rewards in general and this time about the specific distribution of the Blessings. But yes, there was already some feedback regarding this more specific topic in there as well. Thanks for pointing that out again.

I have forwarded this thread and the other thread again to the devs. If I get a response on it that I can share, I will do :)

Btw I was asked to open this thread and the thread back then. It wasn't to steal anyone's time but to collect feedback. Thanks for understanding.

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7 minutes ago, Madlen said:

The last sentence that I gave on the thread was from the devs :) Directly from Captain Morgan. Thanks for the summary in between the thread back then. Back then we were more asking about the rewards in general and this time about the specific distribution of the Blessings. But yes, there was already some feedback regarding this more specific topic in there as well. Thanks for pointing that out again.

I have forwarded this thread and the other thread again to the devs. If I get a response on it that I can share, I will do :)

I know in the past that they fell into the trap of never being able to give us enough info and ALL their time would be consumed by answering questions (esp. Captain Morgan), and I also understand why they don't feel like they should have to justify every decision they make.

However, these guys are the professional game designers in the room, and it would be interesting to hear them talk about the philosophy behind this mechanic more than they have in the past.

Edited by dumpster

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Just now, dumpster said:

, and it would be interesting to hear them talk about this more than they have in the past.

 

Totally. As said, I am always sharing what I can share and get on information:) and as soon as I can.

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5 minutes ago, Artemus said:

Let's make the point of the situation:

1. Repayment to alliances with gems-5000 (incorrect)

2. Have disabled bonuses to some and others No 3.

We still have problems on the blessings of league (for those who go up and down)

Madlen,  what's your answer to this?

 

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2 minutes ago, Madlen said:

Totally. As said, I am always sharing what I can share and get on information:) and as soon as I can.

Alysea used to bake cakes and pies to get information out of them. I think she had a chocolate/peanut butter cake that always worked. Just a suggestion!

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3 minutes ago, Artemus said:

Madlen,  what's your answer to this?

 

 

9 minutes ago, Artemus said:

Let's make the point of the situation:

1. Repayment to alliances with gems-5000 (incorrect)

2. Have disabled bonuses to some and others No 3.

We still have problems on the blessings of league (for those who go up and down)

good connoisseur, except for butter: P of peanuts, here I think a snake that bites the thing for months.

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17 minutes ago, Artemus said:

Let's make the point of the situation:

1. Repayment to alliances with gems-5000 (incorrect)

2. Have disabled bonuses to some and others No 3.

We still have problems on the blessings of league (for those who go up and down)

 

11 minutes ago, Artemus said:

Madlen,  what's your answer to this?

 

I saw you answering D.  In 2 seconds, you could do it with me, too.

 

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Con tanta educazione , gentilezza, ci date le benedizioni che ci spettano .... attenzione "" ..... sta scritto (tanta educazione, tanta gentilezza) senza cancellare il messaggio nn vorrei essere preso per volgare se dovessi chiedere le benedizioni.

Edited by Demolitore
Scritto male

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Dem, se scrivi in italiano te lo cancellano o nel migliore dei casi ti ignorano. Questo forum è English Only. Poi magari scrivi anche l'alleanza se richiedi bonus ....

translation of what Demolitore wrote: ------------------

Please, and I'm asking it kindly, could we have the blessings that we should have and that are still missing ?

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7 hours ago, HADESv2 said:

hi Olympians , i see you all been missing hades 😁

hi hades! hope you're doing well!  We do miss you!

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previously , winning or losing every single torch could make a big change in getting war blessings and even in long run that single torch could make another difference since war blessing power lvl was also dependent on the total torch number of each alliance, so it would make sense to fight for every single torch.

now here with new system torches are raining from the sky not only making them worthless but also making them useless, as of now i think there's no use for total torches an alliance has, so why do we even see the total torch number anymore? i could be wrong 😀

They said this will be fixed at some point, and you won't see total torches.

Spoiler

(Although it is super useful to see who has won/lost strikes!)

 But they're only really important in League of Mortals.

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the problem with this is that by first 2 wars it's almost clear who get promoted and who won't so what are the other teams playing for after that point ???🙄

what's the motivation for the team or players to play the rest of the wars? nothing. they play or not doesn't make tiniest bit of change.

I don't know if that's true, really. I've seen a lot of seasons come right down to the last war. If it's true, though, do you think allowing some teams in a league to have full blessings and some teams to have zero would help to make those last two wars more competitive?

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other issue is some critical blessings are just for top league , while previously any team who would dominate the war could have a taste of them, this makes every player want to leave their team and jump to top league cause he previously had it now taken from him.

ofc i don't expect any player from top league have any understanding or issue with this but also i am sure they will most welcome it  😁, but is this the direction a healthy game goes or is it just a death counter for a game? i see some other players mentioned this in this topic also.in

I think this is logical, but I don't see that happen very often in practice. It's kind of a lot of the same players in league of titans. Lower level/lower league players do jump up from time to time, but in my experience a lot of them don't last more than a war or two because of the difficulty. Players seem to stay in the league where they are comfortable fighting wars. Not all the time, but usually. Just my experience. Does your alliance lose a lot of players to top teams? That would be good information to add to the discussion.

And let's be fair -- blessing jumpers have always been a part of the game. So whether a player is jumping to titan or god's league to get more blessings, or to an alliance in Demi-gods with full war blessings, does it really matter at the end of the day? If anything, if a player has the option of going to Titan league and spending hundreds or thousands of gems in war, maybe, just to get 6 blessings, or stay in their own league and get 6 blessings, which one do you think most players are going to choose? With the current system, there's a NASTY disincentive for jumping to top leagues for blessings -- wars are very hard!

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my opinion every team in each league shall have blessings regarding their ranking like 1-4 teams get all blessings(these are promoted to next league). 5-8 get few blessings etc. this also can be done  by giving war blessings different power lvls per league. and once a team promoted or demoted war blessings shall change accordingly to that league (if given war blessings different lvls for different league ), so even if bugged would be corrected after one promotion,demotion.

This makes sense for some of the higher leagues, but does it work in lower leagues as well? League of heroes, for example, has 60 alliances. Would only the top 24 alliances get war blessings? Would you try to get every alliance in that league at least one blessing (and if so, would that mean 10 alliances in League of Heroes would have 6 war blessings? Would the other alliances in that league enjoy facing that in war every week? How about a League of Heroes alliance who only have one or two blessings fighting a war against two teams with full blessings?)

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top leagues as reward already get more gems that's good enough motivation for playing in top in every single game out there,

there could also be added a resources bonus regarding leagues grade as an additional thing but current war blessings distribution is the word, Disaster, imo.

I think different players and different alliances are motivated by different things, but before War Seasons we saw plenty of alliances drop low or start from scratch to fight easy wars and earn easy blessings. You must remember fighting against elevator alliances, and how annoying that was, right? That dramatically slowed down with War Seasons, and I think the blessing distribution had a big part to play. Gems can be bought, War Blessings can't be.

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and i read other posts i see D voiced his idea yet he sees a right for himself to call every single other idea worse, well with all due respect D and you know that i do, i don't need that reply. one man one voice . i don't need to be silenced or hear my opinion is worse, that's what devs should decide , well. if they read this.

 I like having discussions about this stuff. It's not a poll, it's a discussion thread. I think there are some major balance issues and negative consequences that would come up if the devs implemented a plan like you described. I agree with you 100% that some alliances might like it better! I think there are a lot who would think it's much worse, and I'm not talking at all about my alliance. We would do fine in the system you describe. I'm talking about alliances who work damn hard to fight and stay in league of gods, league of demi-gods, etc.., but who end up in the bottom half of the leaderboard most seasons. They're too good and play too hard to be demoted, but they're outclassed in half the wars they fight. Your system would absolutely take war blessings away from those alliances, and I haven't heard any justification for why that's fair except "might makes right". 

I also think that there aren't a ton of systems in place to make wars "fair" from week to week. There are no weight classes, level limits, no advanced matchmaking. One of the few "equalizers" is that all alliances in a league have the same access to war blessings. It's why the war blessing bug is such a big deal. It chips away at the competitiveness. It's why it's terrible that alliances who are promoted mid-season don't have access to the new war blessing they earned. They earned it! War Seasons has been live for 8 months, this issue came up right away, and it's never been fixed. There's no excuse for that! But it doesn't make the blessing distribution system bad, it's a separate issue.

High level/trophy players in low ranked alliances get matched with enemies on their island map from high ranked alliances, who have blessings they don't have access to. TRUE.  Would implementing your proposed system make raiding more fair for those players? MAYBE, if their alliance is able to rank high in their league at the end of the season, or if blessings get taken away from some of the players they get matched with (although they might be added to other players they get matched with, too). Would that make war better or more fair? I say no, not at all. It would make the war experience for weaker teams in a league the exact same as the raiding experience those high level players face now. If your alliance had a really hard season with a couple of impossible matchups and ended up just good enough to not get demoted, would you be happy? Probably not, right? Would you be happier if next season you fought wars against alliances with 5 or 6 more war blessings than you had? Just because maybe they got a few easy matchups, or 2vs1'd their enemies? I have a hard time seeing that as a positive situation, but that's just me. I'm open minded, though! Is there a 3rd way, or a hybrid of your idea and the current system that would be better? Can you think of something that could be added to your idea to cheer up one of the alliances who would probably earn fewer blessings under your proposed system? 

Edited by dumpster

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Chaos and Phalanx are both defensive boosts. Aside from the undeserved war blessing, they are just a pain to play

with especially if you don't have it; but the disadvantage should mostly come from trophy count. So if the devs can find a fair way to

identify and factor this into the trophies lost/gain then things should be more in balance. But obviously easier said than done .....  

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I hope to be constructive:

It is necessary to update because at the end of every war the general of the alliance winner of each league should be asked (in game) if he prefers to have a prize in gems or the best blessings of war. At the second classified alliance should go the one that was not chosen. At the third alliance some gems and the wall of phalanx. To all the others a little less gems. I think the competition would be more alive and we would fight to get the maximum.

For example:

At the end of the war

1st place: Titans Warriors                  the general d9d9(best in the world) decides whether to take 5000 gems and some lower blassing or gate of chaos and wall of the phalanx and some lower blassing

2nd place: C.C.C.P.                           wins what the Warrior Titans discard

3rd classified: Gods of War                wins 2000 gems and wall of the phalanx and lower blassing

4th place:                                            wins 1000 gems and  lower blassing

5th place:                                            wins 1000 gems and  lower blessing

.

.

the last four classified                        recede

the first three classified are promoted to the upper league.

 

This is valid for each league.

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I play on TL for the 4k gems at the end of season - and I can honestly say last season and this season I've spend very few gems to get the reward - maybe spent 150 gems total in 6 wars. So gems is enough of an incentive for me for OR to be a free to play game. Not so much playing in a lower league. 

The war blessings help hugely in defence of trophies, but this system is all wrong anyway, so tbh, don't really care anymore. Just too many bugs with GK (area damage/DR to high etc)  and war blessings for some TL teams never end, so we just got used to fighting them. 

TL is basically a cartel system that will allow one of 3 teams to win in all reality, so actually 2nd league was more fun for sure.

I'd like the gigas treb, siren, bionic warrior blessings to be redistributed  just to any league but Titan League - as we have all the top blessings anyway - give the little guy a chance to compete against the uber oddessy enhanced bases.  Just bad to have some alliances with every blessing possible forever!

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52 minutes ago, Philstar said:

TL is basically a cartel system that will allow one of 3 teams to win in all reality, so actually 2nd league was more fun for sure.

There was a new alliance to place in the top last season! There have been 5 different top-3 alliances in what, 6 full seasons so far? That’s not bad! I’d give your alliance a punchers chance at top 3 every season if you get a good draw. So that’s at least half the league who are in the running, and maybe more. It all depends on the matchups. Much more competitive than it was at first, and the strength of teams in Titan league is better overall too. 

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@dumpster

hi there,

well i see my suggestion as a complete set with zero issues in it, but the things you mentioned really didn't change much , i like to remind few things though.

you say ppl who jump from lower leagues won't last long in titan due to difficulty. well titan is not difficult at all.that done(those who struggle in there already struggle in other leagues too plus when my blessings suggestion gets done that will be fixed too so no worries till here). and that i see X many invitations from titan league teams while i am in lower leagues!!! , which shows that's where they are looking to make players jump. they know very well their chance to recruit from titan is zero complete 0%.

you know all this very well yet you deny it so i take you word as a a sophistry.i can't see it any other way honestly.

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Does your alliance lose a lot of players to top teams? That would be good information to add to the discussion.

they are loyal but yes we receive and reject so many invitations and repetitive ones from titan league while we are way lower. well added.

other thing you mention is that when 60 teams 1-4 , 5-9 blessings distribution won't work, it can be done by percentage simple, my word was an example not leaving whole league with zero.

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I don't know if that's true, really. I've seen a lot of seasons come right down to the last war.

well here we are not gathered to satisfy top league needs , i know that it is true since i have played in all leagues(and exactly all of them) ,when we make an statement it should be applicable to most if not all leagues, not just top 1 imo.

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do you think allowing some teams in a league to have full blessings and some teams to have zero would help to make those last two wars more competitive? 

please remind me where i stated we should have teams with zero blessings. and ofc the blessings difference will prevent ***** , last war we faced a team which decided to go 4th just to make us 3rd while 2 other russian teams made a gang bang deal , these things surely will happen as long as all teams in a league get all blessings and rewards regardless of their standing, new system was supposed to fix this yet it doesn't , yeah my idea will make everything more competitive without a doubt.

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but before War Seasons we saw plenty of alliances drop low or start from scratch to fight easy wars and earn easy blessings

i disagree to some point, most of them started from scratch to extend blessings for a cheap cost at lower lvl for a year or 2, i don't say seasons are bad i clearly say that war blessings distribution is bad and needs to be fixed it's totally meaningless that a top league team gets all without even trying with making deals etc, they assured to get it while a good team in lower league is assured to not get it , really is funny to me.

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 I like having discussions about this stuff. It's not a poll, it's a discussion thread

me too , but i like to have a discussion with developers, why do you think it's not a poll? it is to me, they asked how it is everyone comes out and explains his idea.

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think there are some major balance issues and negative consequences that would come up if the devs implemented a plan like you described

and i think the model that you are currently satisfied with is full of issues and not working at all and i 100% wrong , that's why i mentioned 1 man 1 voiced, you come forward and disagree with every single idea that suggests a change to current system, that's fine you like current system and you voiced your idea once in 1st post. but to me what you are doing is just blocking other ppl's idea not a discussion. your idea is completely wrong and statements that you make most of them are cause you only played in one league ,yet you see right for yourself to talk about all leagues and how they are , this is where i don't understand it.if there be few posts devs have more courage to read and maybe make a change in my idea, but when you come forward and say every idea is bad without a single proof  well i am sure no one will read all posts. this is my single person idea others could think differently than i though,

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3 hours ago, HADESv2 said:

@dumpster

hi there,

well i see my suggestion as a complete set with zero issues in it, but the things you mentioned really didn't change much , i like to remind few things though.

you say ppl who jump from lower leagues won't last long in titan due to difficulty. well titan is not difficult at all.that done(those who struggle in there already struggle in other leagues too plus when my blessings suggestion gets done that will be fixed too so no worries till here). and that i see X many invitations from titan league teams while i am in lower leagues!!! , which shows that's where they are looking to make players jump. they know very well their chance to recruit from titan is zero complete 0%.

you know all this very well yet you deny it so i take you word as a a sophistry.i can't see it any other way honestly.

they are loyal but yes we receive and reject so many invitations and repetitive ones from titan league while we are way lower. well added.

Ok but before you said that the Titan League war blessings were making players jump to top ranked teams, and now you're saying they're getting invites but not accepting them. Or did I miss something?

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other thing you mention is that when 60 teams 1-4 , 5-9 blessings distribution won't work, it can be done by percentage simple, my word was an example not leaving whole league with zero.

This would be an excellent thing to flesh out. I think the actual mechanics of your suggestion are important. Keep in mind that awarding Chaos Gate, for example, to a percentage of alliances in each league could result in many more alliances being able to run max blessings than currently are able. Under the current system it's 12 alliances, under yours it could be as many as 25. Can the lower league alliances who win 4, 5, or 6 blessings afford to run all of them? Most probably couldn't. This would be a reward for the richest alliances.

Also, it would remove blessings from top alliances and add them to lower alliances, making the difficulty for lower players much more extreme and the difficulty for higher level players (who tend to get matched with GL and TL players more often) easier. Is that a good move? It depends, right? Can your average League of Heroes player win a base with 6 war blessings? It's a good question to ask, because if your plan was implemented they would be matched with many more max-blessing bases than before. 

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well here we are not gathered to satisfy top league needs , i know that it is true since i have played in all leagues(and exactly all of them) ,when we make an statement it should be applicable to most if not all leagues, not just top 1 imo.

Exactly. Do you think lower league alliances should be matched with max-blessing defenses more often than they currently are, during war and on their island map?

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please remind me where i stated we should have teams with zero blessings. and ofc the blessings difference will prevent ***** , last war we faced a team which decided to go 4th just to make us 3rd while 2 other russian teams made a gang bang deal , these things surely will happen as long as all teams in a league get all blessings and rewards regardless of their standing, new system was supposed to fix this yet it doesn't , yeah my idea will make everything more competitive without a doubt.

I would love to see a more fleshed out scenario of your plan.

You skipped over a bunch of what I wrote above, particularly what to do in the situation of an alliance in ANY league who is too strong to be demoted and too weak to fight for promotion or top blessings. In your scenario, many of these alliances would be looking at receiving fewer blessings than they are now. What would you do to prevent them from trying to drop to a lower league? Does that make wars more competitive?

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i disagree to some point, most of them started from scratch to extend blessings for a cheap cost at lower lvl for a year or 2, i don't say seasons are bad i clearly say that war blessings distribution is bad and needs to be fixed it's totally meaningless that a top league team gets all without even trying with making deals etc, they assured to get it while a good team in lower league is assured to not get it , really is funny to me.

You said that in your last war you had two alliances make a deal to double team you, so it's not a problem just in the top leagues, correct?
Do you think your alliance could stay in titan league if you were promoted to it? If so, you'll be there in just a few seasons under the current system, right?

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me too , but i like to have a discussion with developers, why do you think it's not a poll? it is to me, they asked how it is everyone comes out and explains his idea.

I know you haven't posted here in a while, but the Devs don't have discussions anymore. But I do! We're having a good one, I think!

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and i think the model that you are currently satisfied with is full of issues and not working at all and i 100% wrong , that's why i mentioned 1 man 1 voiced, you come forward and disagree with every single idea that suggests a change to current system, that's fine you like current system and you voiced your idea once in 1st post. but to me what you are doing is just blocking other ppl's idea not a discussion. your idea is completely wrong and statements that you make most of them are cause you only played in one league ,yet you see right for yourself to talk about all leagues and how they are , this is where i don't understand it.if there be few posts devs have more courage to read and maybe make a change in my idea, but when you come forward and say every idea is bad without a single proof  well i am sure no one will read all posts. this is my single person idea others could think differently than i though,

I disagree with you here. I've presented a number of scenarios where these suggestions, yours included, show major flaws. I think all of them are interesting, but no more fair than the current system. They're just fair in a different way for a different group of players. They may be fair for high powered players who are in lower alliances, but are they fair for the low powered player or more casual player in a lower alliance? That's a big group of players, so it's an important question, I think. If your answer is yes, back it up! Tell me why, besides just saying "Because of course it will!" That's not an answer.

Answering questions like that makes your concept stronger and will do more to convince the devs that it's valid. 

So here's the exam:

It's a 1on1 war. It's Voltures vs. Balance of Valhalla. Last season VOLTURES got hard matchups, maybe got doubleteamed by the russians, whatever. You ended up in the lower third and were able to buy two war blessings for the season. Balance of Valhalla did just enough to stay in your league but not get promoted. They have full regular blessings and 5 war blessings. Is that a better scenario than the current system, which, when it's working, gives you both the same access to war blessings?
 

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@dumpster

this will be boring for you devs i highly recommend not reading cause this thing we have me and D now is not called a discussion, discussion is based on logic and when it falls out of it it's not a discussion anymore.

when i say cause x1,x2,x3 i announce statement X you can not just go straight forward to X and say oh i don't think it's good, it's bad (and if you do it has zero logical value it only has personal idea value). that if you do in a 3rd party discussion(not 2 way - 2 way is in between 2, while here you rejecting my idea that is offered to a 3rd person) is sophistry, while a logical discussion is like going to each of x1,x2,x3, rejecting them reasonabily and thus saying so after all X is false.

other method of reply you have is this, i say i like sundays, you say sundays are bad cause sky is blue, well although your secondary statement is true(yeah anyday like sunday sky is blue.) but well it's totally irrelevant to my statement this is also another sophistry form which only blocks nothing else.doesn't reject my statement just goes to opposite and again zero logical value.

ok now that i described what we have here lets get back to it well not discussion ofc.

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Ok but before you said that the Titan League war blessings were making players jump to top ranked teams, and now you're saying they're getting invites but not accepting them. Or did I miss something?

you know the answer better than i , but since you like this form ok, where are your current players coming from? you think if it wasn't for complete set of blessings you could have all of them? isn't that why texas teams always used pay a lot for blessings (even when many teams didn't still) ? to prevent players from jumping for blessings?

it was always present both my statements are correct both receiving invitations and both players moving to top league for extra blessings and rewards that are guaranteed regardless of ranking,

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Can the lower league alliances who win 4, 5, or 6 blessings afford to run all of them? Most probably couldn't. This would be a reward for the richest alliances.

wouldn't be worse to just have special blessings to 12 teams that most of them even don't do anything to earn it? while keeping teams that do hard out of it?

ofc it's worse , you are saying oh let's not give them the option cause they might not be able to afford it, ouch that's a terrible idea , wasn't your team always paying for blessings with real money? well it'd be the same at worse case scenario for other teams.

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Also, it would remove blessings from top alliances and add them to lower alliances, making the difficulty for lower players much more extreme and the difficulty for higher level players (who tend to get matched with GL and TL players more often) easier. Is that a good move? It depends, right? Can your average League of Heroes player win a base with 6 war blessings? It's a good question to ask, because if your plan was implemented they would be matched with many more max-blessing bases than before. 

wouldn't be worse to reward teams for doing nothing just taking place in titan league? wouldn't cause players who want those blessings migrate to titan league? these are important questions. wouldn't this system feed those player for eternity and leaving whole rest of teams out of it with zero chance to have it?

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Exactly. Do you think lower league alliances should be matched with max-blessing defenses more often than they currently are, during war and on their island map?

for that i suggest to grant war blessings power based on league, i assume you missed that part,do you think some lazy players in titan league are worthy of having special blessings and rewards just cause their team sits there? isn't taking the challenge just to titan league making the rest of league unworthy?

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You skipped over a bunch of what I wrote above, particularly what to do in the situation of an alliance in ANY league who is too strong to be demoted and too weak to fight for promotion or top blessings. In your scenario, many of these alliances would be looking at receiving fewer blessings than they are now. What would you do to prevent them from trying to drop to a lower league? Does that make wars more competitive?

already addressed it with how to prevent abusing system but assigning different lvls of war blessings into different leagues.

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You said that in your last war you had two alliances make a deal to double team you, so it's not a problem just in the top leagues, correct?
Do you think your alliance could stay in titan league if you were promoted to it? If so, you'll be there in just a few seasons under the current system, right?

i said i am talking about all leagues before cause i played in all. do you think if i invite all your players to join my team in lower league they would accept? or they just find lower leagues unworthy of competition or naked of good special blessings that exists in titan league? it will only take few minutes to invite them all wanna test?

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I know you haven't posted here in a while, but the Devs don't have discussions anymore. But I do! We're having a good one, I think!

that's sad honestly , like i said discussion has a form and yours in my sole idea is completely out of one.(mine gone too unintentionally)

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I disagree with you here. I've presented a number of scenarios where these suggestions, yours included, show major flaws. I think all of them are interesting, but no more fair than the current system. They're just fair in a different way for a different group of players. They may be fair for high powered players who are in lower alliances, but are they fair for the low powered player or more casual player in a lower alliance? That's a big group of players, so it's an important question, I think. If your answer is yes, back it up! Tell me why, besides just saying "Because of course it will!" That's not an answer.

and we don't have present or simulate i already counted how many major issues flaws and unjust has your current favorite system,which must be change.cause current system is just a good feed on titan league and seems unfair.unless we close our eyes and imagine whole game is titan league, well if do you are correct.

what i suggested will not bring favor to a certain type of player or team, instead it makes more activity everywhere, well you might not be familiar with football(english) just as an example in premier league each team gets rewarded based on their ranking, ofc each league also has different value for rewards, that is not happening by accident there is a simple cause to prevent teams from sleeping in their position to create a cause to go for next available rank to possibily prevent or lower the chance of teams making deals as if ranks wouldn't matter it would be more common etc.

and you say "because it will" is not an answer. also "because it wouldn't" that you say isn't anything of logical value like mine, i said it just to bold how you reject things that i say, wasn't meaning to be something logical,

how about you come forward and back up all the major flaws that i counted here? i haven't see any backup to the major flaws i counted not even one, is there a reason?

Edited by HADESv2
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If you want to cherry pick what I say and choose to only respond to some of it, that's fine.

Tell me the flaws you'd like me to respond to. I'll do them one by one.

Edited by dumpster

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i responded to all that i read one by one , unlike you.

unless i missed a row, while i didn't take a simple answer for anything . not even one 🙁.not even a reason to why any of my statements is bad, 🙄 well i mean more than hearing that they are not working or worse in your personal view.i didn't get anything. wasn't expecting either when i posted them, was just hoping devs might keep an eye in it that's enough for me.

well the flaws are present in my 1st post, i also tried to insert them in groups for easier reading/accessing as madlen suggested. i am not asking you to respond to the flaws i mentioned , it's your choice to do or not , i was saying they received no backup no answer no solutions.while the solutions that i suggested are been marked as bad for no reason, except for personal preferences, which is respected by me for everyone to have one.

and questions to be answered are the ones i made in the above post which are critical blows to every element of current distribution system in my sole idea.

i think i shall add them under 1st post to have a better summary.

 

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2 hours ago, HADESv2 said:

i am not asking you to respond to the flaws i mentioned , it's your choice to do or not

You just asked me to do that! Specifically! Come on, Hades. Please. Read what you wrote.

I'm more than willing to argue in good faith with anyone here, but don't distort the truth. I went line by line and responded to your first post. You skipped about half of what I said and responded to the stuff you wanted to.

You even skipped the scenario I presented using a real example of two alliances in your league.

But anyways, I'm going to try and list what I think your flaws with the current system are (It's not clear from what you wrote, sorry), and will back them up like you asked me to.

1) Alliances in higher leagues do not earn their war blessings. I fundamentally disagree with this! They fight wars to earn blessings. Wars get harder as they go up in leagues. They require more participation, more organization, higher levels, more forging. If you think your alliance can win against the best teams in the leagues above you, then you will be in titan league in no time at all. If you think it's easy, you'll be able to stay there forever. But you're currently ranked in the lower half of your current league, and as you yourself said, seasons are decided after the first two wars. In your system, you'd end up with less war blessings next season than you have this season and it would be even harder for you to advance to the next league.

2) War Blessings only being available in top leagues makes jumping alliances attractive. This isn't a problem that's exclusive to the current system, and it's debatable whether it's even a problem. It's up to the leadership of an alliance to develop loyal players, but some players are always going to be attracted to play in the teams with more/stronger blessings. It happened before war seasons, it happened during war seasons, and it would happen in your proposal also. Heck, it happened before Alliance Wars!  Instead of just being attracted to alliances in higher leagues, blessing jumpers would be attracted to alliances in the same league who won more blessings, or in lower leagues who won more blessings, or in higher leagues who won more/stronger blessings. Spme players stay for the atmosphere in a team or out of loyalty or just because they don't feel like finding a new alliance. Some players jump week to week, always looking for the next new thing. There's nothing at all that will solve this problem other that forcing players to sign contracts or to eliminate all blessings (even regular ones).

Is there a 3rd flaw? Please let me know if I missed one, I will respond to it.

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you know the answer better than i , but since you like this form ok, where are your current players coming from? you think if it wasn't for complete set of blessings you could have all of them? isn't that why texas teams always used pay a lot for blessings (even when many teams didn't still) ? to prevent players from jumping for blessings?

Many of our players have been with us for 2.5 years and have never left. Many have been trained through training alliances and are now key players in the top team. You were one of those players. Many came from merges or are old friends. Only a few came "in off the street", but some of them are officers now and very loyal players. Some didn't agree with the direction their old alliance was taking. Were they supposed to stay in a situation they were unhappy with? Of course not. We've gotten "off the street" players who were probably just looking to get blessings and they'd only last a war or 2 because they couldn't participate fully or score enough. There are some players in the game who are strong/talented enough to play in any alliance they want, but they choose to bounce around from one to the other instead of finding a home and staying there. It's not what I choose to do, but so what? There's nothing wrong with it. That's how they like to play.

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hat i suggested will not bring favor to a certain type of player or team, instead it makes more activity everywhere, well you might not be familiar with football(english) just as an example in premier league each team gets rewarded based on their ranking, ofc each league also has different value for rewards, that is not happening by accident there is a simple cause to prevent teams from sleeping in their position to create a cause to go for next available rank to possibily prevent or lower the chance of teams making deals as if ranks wouldn't matter it would be more common etc

I will be the first to admit that I'm much more familiar with american sports, however Premier league would be awesome if the winning team could earn giant black holes in front of their goal. Sadly it's not the case. They also don't earn rewards based on how they rank that affect play on the field. 

What you are describing is the equivalent of a league where the winner from the previous season could have 13 players on their team, while one of the lower ranked teams could only have 7. Or the winner could have a smaller goal than one of the lower ranked teams. 

If you want to suggest that perhaps the GEM rewards be distributed differently based on how alliances rank during a season, that would be a MUCH more apples to apples situation, and I would think that would be a VERY COMPELLING suggestion.

I think (and it's just my opinion!!!) that having all alliances in a league on equal platform re: blessings makes wars fair. WARS. Does it make grinding on the map fair? That's your call, but if you say NO, DUMPSTER, THAT'S NOT FAIR! I will be happy to listen to that argument. THAT PROBLEM COULD HAVE A MATCHMAKING SOLUTION, not a blessing distribution solution, though! 

I think that right now Wars themselves are fairly balanced. I don't like the idea of un-balancing blessings during war. I don't like the idea of unbalancing one aspect of wars to solve a problem that exists outside of war unless there's an enormous benefit, which again I don't see. I think at best you're moving furniture around without addressing the core issues.

I think it would be extremely positive if the Devs looked at this thread and decided that there wasn't a war blessing distribution problem, there was an island matchmaking problem and worked to address that instead of changing a system that works.

Finally, if you only answer one question, could you please answer this one? Why would you want to fight an alliance in war who had more or less access to blessings that you have?

OK one more thing!!! How do you like this idea?

War blessings go away completely, kinda. The 6 normal war blessings become available to every ranked alliance, just like regular blessings with the following differences: Standard blessings are earned and levelled up based on alliance level. War blessings would be available to all alliances as soon as they entered League of Warriors, and their strength would be based upon the league you're in (like you suggested). Titan League's war blessings would be exactly the same strength as they are now, and they would get weaker as you get towards League of Warriors. You still earn more gold in higher leagues, so it's still easier to afford more blessings at the top, but everyone has access and blessings are standardized between alliances during war. Top 3 alliances in each league have access to the 3 new blessings.

Is that an interesting compromise? Does it solve the problems of inter-league mis-matches? Does it create new problems I'm not thinking of?

The main negative that I can think of is that it could really make wars more difficult at lower levels, while they stay the same at higher levels. That's why I think the current system works well.

Edited by dumpster

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I went line by line and responded to your first post

yet what you wrote was irrelevant to my words you just repeated describing why your idea is good, so i got no answers there.

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1) Alliances in higher leagues do not earn their war blessings. I fundamentally disagree with this! They fight wars to earn blessings

if you would show some respect to other leagues would never say this, you are saying only higher leagues are worthy of special blessings, well i disagree completely, all leagues try hard not just one league but only one league gets the special things, so my flaw stays there still untouched,

you got my word wrong, the part was including all leagues, my team etc. middle teams sit and get it for free. all leagues, i was saying regarding the top league not only this is happening like any other league in current system also they are sitting for special blessings they earned through merges! not trying. unless you want to tell me your team has had less than 4-5 merges i can't take your word for it.so what you are telling me is go one find 4-5 teams merge with them destroy the current teams and move to titan if i can. that's what you did and you expect everyone else to do so? yeah i don't find this a good solution to trash all leagues merge and go in top. i just don't like it and you know how am i when it comes to destroying team in favor of making a team places in top league. you know i disagree.

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If you think your alliance can win against the best teams in the leagues above you, then you will be in titan league in no time at all. If you think it's easy, you'll be able to stay there forever. But you're currently ranked in the lower half of your current league, and as you yourself said, seasons are decided after the first two wars. In your system, you'd end up with less war blessings next season than you have this season and it would be even harder for you to advance to the next league.

you are saying cause in my suggested system my team would get fewer blessings in current standing it's harder for us to go up , this is wrong, cause we don't face always top teams we also face lower, same rank teams with fewer blessings in that suggested system. your team has it made 4-5 merges of good players which most came from lower league, oops! not only yours, all teams there did it. i stand corrected. and just cause you merged you you should have exclusive bonuses? ofc i disagree. ofc i do, cause it makes no sense to discriminate in-game elements and keep everyone else off of it. that's my idea. so here we disagree again.

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2) War Blessings only being available in top leagues makes jumping alliances attractive. This isn't a problem that's exclusive to the current system

i didn't say it's exclusive to this system i said these exclusive blessing system will make it more common and a reason ppl will be attracted to do so. but on this part we have a little slight agreement regarding the rest of the thing you said, yeah it's not all of it but definitely part of it specially when merges started only reason was just being in top league at any cost, well if we wouldn't make other leagues unworthy by* keeping them away from special stuff this wouldn't happen at this rate . so we created a sick cycle which is going on and on, till all leagues are trashed but 1 remains that's how i see things i could be wrong though.

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Many of our players have been with us for 2.5 years and have never left

you wouldn't be in top league with just that many now, i know them all.

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Many came from merges or are old friends

why they merged with a team in top league and not a team in lower league? why did they even merge? well answer is only titan league was satisfying alone they went to sacrifice their team do a merge just to place in top league thx, that was exactly what i was referring to, not just your team, all teams in top league are now consisted of teams who were willing to give up on their team just exist in top league , yeah exactly the flaw is was counting.

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What you are describing is the equivalent of a league where the winner from the previous season could have 13 players on their team, while one of the lower ranked teams could only have 7. Or the winner could have a smaller goal than one of the lower ranked teams. 

no, i was making an example to why there must be difference between rankings in each league, whys and causes , just saying that's a must in that example wasn't suggesting we should apply same exact conditions in premier league , but listen to yourself you , having special powerful blessings in top leagues and removing them from lower league is like saying ok league one play with 13 players rest of the leagues play with 7 players cause you didn't try hard to merge up. we can also see it this way.

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Does it make grinding on the map fair? That's your call, but if you say NO, DUMPSTER, THAT'S NOT FAIR! I will be happy to listen to that argument. THAT PROBLEM COULD HAVE A MATCHMAKING SOLUTION, not a blessing distribution solution, though! 

that's exactly related to war blessings distribution, on that part that some war blessings are exclusive to titan league, but i see what you mean, you are not much wrong there, could also be other things involved. it would be more or less fixed in that suggestion i made though.

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I think (and it's just my opinion!!!) that having all alliances in a league on equal platform re: blessings makes wars fair.

i hear you and respect that idea but the result is boring wars in all other leagues except titan. well ok so we should sacrifice whole leagues for the sake of titan pleasure? that's the question to be answered cause that doesn't apply to lower leagues. makes them like i explained in first post.

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I think that right now Wars themselves are fairly balanced. I don't like the idea of un-balancing blessings during war. I don't like the idea of unbalancing one aspect of wars to solve a problem that exists outside of war unless there's an enormous benefit, which again I don't see. I think at best you're moving furniture around without addressing the core issues.

i take your word for titan league again, but how do you balance in titan league? merge merge merge, again not your team, all teams there, getting players from lower leagues making everything boring and dead so your league goes on well, this is what i mentioned as a game killer, so we can agree that we disagree here.different view points.

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Finally, if you only answer one question, could you please answer this one? Why would you want to fight an alliance in war who had more or less access to blessings that you have?

i don't want to drive a car to my work everyday but if i have to i will, i believe that system is better for the reasons i described if in that system this happens then i do that. oh and just cause i quote a part of your sentences doesn't mean ignoring rest, the reply is to the whole part.

Edited by HADESv2

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8 minutes ago, HADESv2 said:

yet what you wrote was irrelevant to my words you just repeated describing why your idea is good, so i got no answers there.

if you would show some respect to other leagues would never say this, you are saying only higher leagues are worthy of special blessings, well i disagree completely, all leagues try hard not just one league but only one league gets the special things, so my flaw stays there still untouched,

you got my word wrong, the part was including all leagues, my team etc. middle teams sit and get it for free. all leagues, i was saying regarding the top league not only this is happening like any other league in current system also they are sitting for special blessings they earned through merges! not trying. unless you want to tell me your team has had less than 4-5 merges i can't take your word for it.so what you are telling me is go one find 4-5 teams merge with them destroy the current teams and move to titan if i can. that's what you did and you expect everyone else to do so? yeah i don't find this a good solution to trash all leagues merge and go in top. i just don't like it and you know how am i when it comes to destroying team in favor of making a team places in top league. you know i disagree.

you are saying cause in my suggested system my team would get fewer blessings in current standing it's harder for us to go up , this is wrong, cause we don't face always top teams we also face lower, same rank teams with fewer blessings in that suggested system. your team has it made 4-5 merges of good players which most came from lower league, oops! not only yours, all teams there did it. i stand corrected. and just cause you merged you you should have exclusive bonuses? ofc i disagree. ofc i do, cause it makes no sense to discriminate in-game elements and keep everyone else off of it. that's my idea. so here we disagree again.

i didn't say it's exclusive to this system i said these exclusive blessing system will make it more common and a reason ppl will be attracted to do so. but on this part we have a little slight agreement regarding the rest of the thing you said, yeah it's not all of it but definitely part of it specially when merges started only reason was just being in top league at any cost, well if we wouldn't make other leagues unworthy by* keeping them away from special stuff this wouldn't happen at this rate . so we created a sick cycle which is going on and on, till all leagues are trashed but 1 remains that's how i see things i could be wrong though.

you wouldn't be in top league with just that many now, i know them all.

why they merged with a team in top league and not a team in lower league? why did they even merge? well answer is only titan league was satisfying alone they went to sacrifice their team do a merge just to place in top league thx, that was exactly what i was referring to, not just your team, all teams in top league are now consisted of teams who were willing to give up on their team just exist in top league , yeah exactly the flaw is was counting.

no, i was making an example to why there must be difference between rankings in each league, whys and causes , just saying that's a must in that example wasn't suggesting we should apply same exact conditions in premier league , but listen to yourself you , having special powerful blessings in top leagues and removing them from lower league is like saying ok league one play with 13 players rest of the leagues play with 7 players cause you didn't try hard to merge up. we can also see it this way.

that's exactly related to war blessings distribution, on that part that some war blessings are exclusive to titan league, but i see what you mean, you are not much wrong there, could also be other things involved. it would be more or less fixed in that suggestion i made though.

i hear you and respect that idea but the result is boring wars in all other leagues except titan. well ok so we should sacrifice whole leagues for the sake of titan pleasure? that's the question to be answered cause that doesn't apply to lower leagues. makes them like i explained in first post.

i take your word for titan league again, but how do you balance in titan league? merge merge merge, again not your team, all teams there, getting players from lower leagues making everything boring and dead so your league goes on well, this is what i mentioned as a game killer, so we can agree that we disagree here.different view points.

i don't want to drive a car to my work everyday but if i have to i will, i believe that system is better for the reasons i described if in that system this happens then i do that. oh and just cause i quote a part of your sentences doesn't mean ignoring rest, the reply is to the whole part.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, then. Really about all of this. I don't think you're being honest about the downsides of the system you proposed. But that's ok!

What did you think about the proposal at the end?

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had to reread your last idea to make sure i understood it correctly,

so what you are saying is still act like all teams are same towards league prizes? but just spread the war blessings across other leagues as well? between titan league and warrior league descending on power.

that's part of it ofc yeah , yet i find differentiating between rankings in each league the more important part, that's what will keep teams from sleeping and specially will make sitting in titan league not prized so teams wouldn't have to merge just to place in titan at any cost, i believe this is more important , my sole idea.

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6 minutes ago, HADESv2 said:

had to reread your last idea to make sure i understood it correctly,

so what you are saying is still act like all teams are same towards league prizes? but just spread the war blessings across other leagues as well? between titan league and warrior league descending on power.

that's part of it ofc yeah , yet i find differentiating between rankings in each league the more important part, that's what will keep teams from sleeping and specially will make sitting in titan league not prized so teams wouldn't have to merge just to place in titan at any cost, i believe this is more important , my sole idea.

Your alliance has merged several times. Why are you against mergers now? I don't get it. How does that affect you? You said your members are loyal and don't accept invites from higher level alliances.

And I really don't get what that has to do with blessing distribution.

Honestly, it's really the most confusing thing. But it seems obvious to you, so please try to explain it better. How will an unbalanced inter-league blessing distribution stop teams from merging?

Edited by dumpster

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