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Madlen

feedback wanted War blessings distribution

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nothing here is a concrete statement ofc , but they are the terms that we are talking about, while they are kinna lost .partially lost or completely, that's to be told and seen. ofc we are here to share when we find something new that is not discussed yet and that's what i did.

there are many questions here forgotten, IF war blessings are not war blessings anymore and are league blessings, why do we still have them? for what cause? who wanted them in this form and who wants it now? is this really what devs wanted to do with war blessings? to have them available for most teams permanently? treat them like divine blessings? destroy their cause? or did it happen on the way unintentionally?

can we remove them totally? no, shall we rename? nothing changes but good option if we want to ignore all else that was said . my view is to change and make a meaningful war blessings distribution which is based on wars actually. not removed not renamed/ignored and cause is brought back , which will also bring the motivation it was created to have in first place.

war blessings were supposed to be rewards of war for 2 years, that was the cause that we know them by and was the cause they existed in first place , now that is gone. and i believe this needs to be reminded, investigated and corrected.

all these were missed from this topic and i thought just bring them and add to the table of content here, in my earlier post and this one.

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26 minutes ago, HADESv2 said:

nothing here is a concrete statement ofc , but they are the terms that we are talking about, while they are kinna lost .partially lost or completely, that's to be told and seen. ofc we are here to share when we find something new that is not discussed yet and that's what i did.

there are many questions here forgotten, IF war blessings are not war blessings anymore and are league blessings, why do we still have them? for what cause? who wanted them in this form and who wants it now? is this really what devs wanted to do with war blessings? to have them available for most teams permanently? treat them like divine blessings? destroy their cause? or did it happen on the way unintentionally?

can we remove them totally? no, shall we rename? nothing changes but good option if we want to ignore all else that was said . my view is to change and make a meaningful war blessings distribution which is based on wars actually. not removed not renamed/ignored and cause is brought back , which will also bring the motivation it was created to have in first place.

war blessings were supposed to be rewards of war for 2 years, that was the cause that we know them by and was the cause they existed in first place , now that is gone. and i believe this needs to be reminded, investigated and corrected.

all these were missed from this topic and i thought just bring them and add to the table of content here, in my earlier post and this one.

RE: Naming

You need to perform well in four wars to earn war blessings. They're not earned by playing odyssey or forging or upgrading your alliance. It's different than it used to be, but war is still the mechanism to earn war blessings. Saying it's not is dishonest, in my opinion.

Once again, if you think the name "War Blessings" is somehow both inaccurate and intrinsically important, the name can be changed. However, I think both you and I agree that the name isn't really important at all, it's the distribution method. Bringing the issue of the name in, which you know to not really be important but claiming that it is somehow, is arguing in bad faith. It's a strawman fallacy. It distracts everyone from talking about the real issues.

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This thread is getting again out of control ..

It sadden me that, as a not-english speaker, I seem to understand what H. is saying more than a native english one. That even if H and me never talked about this matter between ourself.

What he means, and you fail to understand, is that once they were war blessings. Meaning, you had to earn them by actually winning wars. If you did NOT win, you were NOT getting them. If you were WINNING, you were getting them. See what Hades maean ? They were *related* to how you were performing in war. Win, get them. Lose, don't get them.

So when he says they are not war blessings any longer, he is right - because now they are given to everyone in a league regardless of how they performed. See ? Not too hard to grasp, as a comcept. You do not need to "do well in four wars" .. all you have to do is not end last.

Now you may consider this just semantic, but it is not, if you try use the brain a little bit.

What Hades is saying is that what was designed as a reward for war performances, is no longer performing its designed task properly. It's not tied any longer to how good you do, as long as you don't end up last. 

So whatever the devs do, they might keep this in mind. In my opinion, this was a smart point that Hades  made.

 

And it sadden me really, really much that you keep insisting in prending to be dumb. Really. I can't believe you are not understanding what people say.

Actually knwing you, I am pretty sure you are just pretending, so to make fun of everyone that doesn't have english as mother language. I find your attitide rather insulting  at this point, you mock everyone else while looking a smart saint. You have a brain (and even good), use it for sake and stop making fun of other people. Sad.

 

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@dumpster

you don't understand what i added then , it's fine. if you can't understand an idea after it's described 2 times or more, you can simply stop replying to it instead of replying random wrong sentences about that idea. and let other ppl see or talk about it.

and whenever you are out of logic you start calling me things like dishonest, troll, dishonest about my idea, having bad faith in discussion,etc but who gives you such right is a big question!

so far whoever posted in this topic brought up ideas and expanded them except you! you did exactly no construction so far here , so if one is distracting ppl and blockading their ideas is you Sir. don't look elsewhere to find it.

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3 hours ago, Dheth said:

What he means, and you fail to understand, is that once they were war blessings. Meaning, you had to earn them by actually winning wars. If you did NOT win, you were NOT getting them. If you were WINNING, you were getting them. See what Hades maean ? They were *related* to how you were performing in war. Win, get them. Lose, don't get them.

So when he says they are not war blessings any longer, he is right - because now they are given to everyone in a league regardless of how they performed. See ? Not too hard to grasp, as a comcept. You do not need to "do well in four wars" .. all you have to do is not end last.

This right here is the biggest issue that we all need to talk about. This is it. It's really the only important issue.

One side thinks that ranking in a particular league isn't meaningful. That while it may be an achievement to win your league and get promoted to the next league, once you're there and fighting against tougher alliances, it is no longer an achievement to do well enough to stay in that league, and that an alliance who does well enough to not be relegated, but not well enough to get promoted or be one of the very top alliances in their league didn't earn their rewards.

The other side thinks that wars get more difficult as you go up in leagues and require more participation, teamwork, organization, and power -- enough so that being the 30th ranked team in a higher league and remaining there for the next season is a bigger achievement than being the 15th ranked alliance in a lower league. This side thinks that the guaranteed blessings are earned.

These are the two sides, right?

Quote

What Hades is saying is that what was designed as a reward for war performances, is no longer performing its designed task properly. It's not tied any longer to how good you do, as long as you don't end up last. 

That is how good you do. It is tied to how good you do. If you do really good you get an extra blessing. If you do really bad you get one taken away. It's not easy to earn a new blessing. It's very hard. It sometimes takes multiple seasons. For some alliances it's out of reach without re-organizing and re-focusing. You've voiced your complaints about this system, but please don't say it's not tied to performance. It absolutely is. Just not in the way you want it to be.

And yes, the way war blessings were distributed before was changed. It is impossible to distribute war blessings the exact same way they were distributed before because of the changes in 3 of the war formats. Something similar could be implemented, but the old war system is dead and is never coming back. Alliance gold is given out for the rewards for individual wars, and blessings/gems are given out based on performance over a 4 war period. It's different. We agree. You can't say that the rewards are working properly or not in this specific instance because War Blessings were removed from the reward structure for weekly wars. They were also given one strength level. They used to power up and down based on torches. That was changed too. The entire reward structure for War Seasons is different from Alliance Wars, so saying that something isn't working right in War Seasons only using the context of the Original Alliance Wars is comparing apples to oranges.

 

Edited by dumpster

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15 minutes ago, HADESv2 said:

@dumpster

you don't understand what i added then , it's fine. if you can't understand an idea after it's described 2 times or more, you can simply stop replying to it instead of replying random wrong sentences about that idea. and let other ppl see or talk about it.

and whenever you are out of logic you start calling me things like dishonest, troll, dishonest about my idea, having bad faith in discussion,etc but who gives you such right is a big question!

so far whoever posted in this topic brought up ideas and expanded them except you! you did exactly no construction so far here , so if one is distracting ppl and blockading their ideas is you Sir. don't look elsewhere to find it.

I think this is an important thread. I will continue to argue truthfully, accurately, and passionately about the things I believe in, thanks.

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glad to hear that Sir , and i wish we could also see those terms you mentioned happening! one day actually.

but just cause someone is passionate about replying to something, does it mean that he is able to discuss an idea which he didn't understand? and in a constructive manner? well , no.

i understand that all of this is for that passion you mentioned . but when ppl put away understanding and logic and go by passion only! they can be a lot destructive actually. and naughty ofc 😀😉

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20 minutes ago, HADESv2 said:

glad to hear that Sir , and i wish we could also see those terms you mentioned happening! one day actually.

but just cause someone is passionate about replying to something, does it mean that he is able to discuss an idea which he didn't understand? and in a constructive manner? well , no.

i understand that all of this is for that passion you mentioned . but when ppl put away understanding and logic and go by passion only! they can be a lot destructive actually. and naughty ofc 😀😉

I understood what you wrote.

War blessings were changed from a reward at the end of single wars to a reward at the end of the war season. You get alliance gold as the reward for single wars now, not war blessings. War Blessings and Gems are the rewards at the end of a War Season.

But the only thing that War Seasons war blessings and original Alliance War war blessings share is the name and the pictures. They are distributed differently, they have different power mechanisms, they cost different amounts, you can prolong them differently. They no longer directly incentivize winning a single war. War Blessings not incentivizing winning a single war isn't an unintended consequence, it's by design. Do you disagree with any of that? You can disagree with how those changes to war blessings affect the game, but on a factual basis, is there anything I wrote that is factually incorrect?

War Blessings are not the same as they used to be. In a lot of ways they're very different. That's not in dispute. That's why I said it's arguing in bad faith to say that they don't act as the exact same reward as before -- that's not in question, they're not supposed to. Are we in agreement?

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what they're called. League Blessings, War Blessings, Unicorn Bubblegum Points. They're different than they used to be (but so is war!), and we're trying to find a way to make them work better. The only thing that's certain is that the old war system is dead. They're not reverting it back.

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I said a long time ago that war blessings should only be used in war, as they give a big advantage on regular islands. Whether this will ever change is another matter. 

I think from reading that almost all are in favour of better distribution of the 'war' blessings, and that placement in league should affect what you get, whether it's blessing strength and or type of blessing.   League just needs a bit of variety for the newer players, and incentive for all. 

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57 minutes ago, Philstar said:

I said a long time ago that war blessings should only be used in war, as they give a big advantage on regular islands. Whether this will ever change is another matter. 

What’s the advantage to the player of only having blessings during war? It makes war harder, you get no benefit from them during the week, you can’t test your full defense or practice against war blessings to work on different builds.  It seems like a punishment, not a reward. What am I missing?

If the major goal of redistributing war blessings is to make grinding for trophies easier for lower league players, there are matchmaking solutions to that specific problem that don’t involve redistribution of war blessings. 

Edited by dumpster

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9 hours ago, Philstar said:

I said a long time ago that war blessings should only be used in war, as they give a big advantage on regular islands. Whether this will ever change is another matter. 

I think from reading that almost all are in favour of better distribution of the 'war' blessings, and that placement in league should affect what you get, whether it's blessing strength and or type of blessing.   League just needs a bit of variety for the newer players, and incentive for all. 

But some are arguing they are too strong for wars, and therefore they wont have a chance to ever go higher in ranking, and get those blessings. You can see my confusion when I discovered this. Therefore one of my suggestions was to remove the blessings either from war or from defenses. But which one? There seems to be a 50-50% distribution of that, which means it has to remain as is... of course we do not know the real numbers, but it certainly isn't black or white...

I feel there is no end to this discussion. I thought everyone was against the blessings for top leagues. Which I don't care if you remove, personally. If you know the game, or play long enough, you will see it doesn't matter much, maybe spend a few more gems and its done. What we are arguing here is ridiculous when there are far more important things in my opinion. But lets do it, lets find a solution. However without input from devs and more input from the actual users that play this game (the ones who have some basic knowledge), you can't actually make a decision or a valid suggestion

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Hi guys, I am locking this thread temporarily for everyone to cool off again.

I am reading the thread and I am waiting on feedback from the devs to give to your ideas :)

 

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The thread is open again. Please stay on topic ;)

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19 minutes ago, Madlen said:

The thread is open again. Please stay on topic ;)

Madlen you should give us developers feedback on this issue .

There is no point in keeping us in dark.

We need some answers from them soon as this thread will go out of control again( I hope not)

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15 hours ago, dumpster said:

I understood what you wrote.

War blessings were changed from a reward at the end of single wars to a reward at the end of the war season. You get alliance gold as the reward for single wars now, not war blessings. War Blessings and Gems are the rewards at the end of a War Season.

But the only thing that War Seasons war blessings and original Alliance War war blessings share is the name and the pictures. They are distributed differently, they have different power mechanisms, they cost different amounts, you can prolong them differently. They no longer directly incentivize winning a single war. War Blessings not incentivizing winning a single war isn't an unintended consequence, it's by design. Do you disagree with any of that? You can disagree with how those changes to war blessings affect the game, but on a factual basis, is there anything I wrote that is factually incorrect?

War Blessings are not the same as they used to be. In a lot of ways they're very different. That's not in dispute. That's why I said it's arguing in bad faith to say that they don't act as the exact same reward as before -- that's not in question, they're not supposed to. Are we in agreement?

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what they're called. League Blessings, War Blessings, Unicorn Bubblegum Points. They're different than they used to be (but so is war!), and we're trying to find a way to make them work better. The only thing that's certain is that the old war system is dead. They're not reverting it back.

no, that's not my whole point that the system is just changed. point is, that change has damaged things.this is it.

point is, the cause, meaning, reward and motivation of wars is now broken and taken from wars by a large point and is put somewhere lot less relevant, simply rendering wars useless, static, disabled and dead at most of the season for most of the teams and even happens at a worse rate after first 2 wars.
plus, as ppl mentioned , they took some of war blessings where 90% of players don't even have a "shot" to experience them and will never do. deadly blow to wars "cause". which itself is the main cause of this game imo.

Quote

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what they're called. League Blessings, War Blessings, Unicorn Bubblegum Points. They're different than they used to be (but so is war!)

comes from someone who previously called me being narrow minded! and comes from someone who says war blessings is not enough motivation!
(just for the record)

-1 well problem with war blessings is , "the cause" behind them is not justifying them now, the cause is lost in current distribution, which has made wars lacking such a cause, and to end up dead!

-2 the problem with making such statements(what i put in quote above) about war blessings is even worse:

the way you are talking about them, seems as long as you get all war blessings guaranteed at the end of season you don't even care about their cause , existence or distribution. seems even being bubblegum points is justifying it for some ppl to just have them at any cost! no matter if it's destructive to wars! ok, we can disagree here and part ways.

it's like taking cement (war blessings) out of the ceiling (wars), where they belong to and are created for! and  putting it into walls (leagues) instead! which are merely separation indexes.
and then acting like: all is there, and fine, nothing is gone, just changed.   seriously? 🤨
but, does it work as well? no, it will be all destructive to the ceiling (wars).
that's exactly what has happened to wars now. the wars which are meant to be the core elements of this game!

this is so important. that's why i added it to topic.

(i want to add sth in here, actually there's nothing wrong about Phil's idea to only have war blessings at war. Phil's ideas are so creative and meaningful , thx Phil 💪. apart from this, i think we also have some core problems which shall be solved regarding distribution first, as Phil mentioned them in his previous ideas too , i believe before devs make any move, really, should hear all your ideas and viewpoints Phil.)

so far, all the suggestions ppl made, are easily adoptable to current system which makes them even better, a big plus to them. even some of them can be combined easily. and i am sure devs are happy to see them as much as we are.

my idea is always present at 1st post of mine for reference, i would like to add a lot to it but needs more study.

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1 hour ago, HADESv2 said:

it's like taking cement (war blessings) out of the ceiling (wars), where they belong to and are created for! and  putting it into walls (leagues) instead! which are merely separation indexes.
and then acting like: all is there, and fine, nothing is gone, just changed.   seriously? 🤨
but, does it work as well? no, it will be all destructive to the ceiling (wars).
that's exactly what has happened to wars now. the wars which are meant to be the core elements of this game

I completely disagree with this. Leagues aren't just bookmarks that cordon off different groups of alliances. They're major milestones and extremely important. Even in your analogy, I would argue that strong walls are every bit as important as strong ceilings, maybe more so. You can't build a strong ceiling on weak walls.

So here is what War Seasons, as designed, does right re: blessings.

The league structure functions as training and exposure to war blessings one by one. As you graduate into League of Warriors, you're exposed to blessed sirens. They're full strength sirens, the same as in Titan League, but that's all you have to fight. They can be nasty if you don't know what you're doing, but it's so much easier when they're only in waves and not also in charon towers. But if you spend a few seasons in Warrior League, you will hopefully learn some tricks to deal with sirens.

You get a big weapon to fight them in Hero League. Medusas can be a little tricky on defense, and medusas+sirens is a nice combo sometimes, but they're also really good on offense and help you cruise through siren waves. They help with a lot of things. They're also full strength again, but now you're only facing blessed sirens and medusas in war, so it's not overwhelming to less experienced players.

In Kings you get Charon towers, which are kinda garbo by themselves, but with the siren blessings you have one of the best combos in the game. Learning how to counter this combo is very important. You'll face it all the time as you level up, you'll face it in odyssey, it's everywhere. You need to learn how to fight against it. So League of Kings gives you the opportunity to learn how to fight against this combo without having to deal with any of the higher level defensive war blessings. All the tactics you learn will apply the entire time you play OR.

Full strength Prom tower blessings are very powerful, and a lot of lower ranked alliances don't bother to fund the normal prom tower blessing, so that's the only new blessing you have to deal with in Demi-gods. 

You see where I'm going with this, right? For a newer player, the league structure teaches you how to use and fight against powerful, full strength war blessings one by one. It's the kind of built-in guidance the game doesn't have enough of. It teaches you by playing. It doesn't dump you in week 2 against an alliance with 6 war blessings when you only fought an alliance with 2 the week before or the season before.

So while I think this is elegant and thoughtful and works brilliantly for newer players, I understand why it would be frustrating for older players who were used to being able to win up to 3 random blessings per war. It would also be frustrating for elevator alliances who are fairly high powered but are having trouble making their way back up to higher leagues. 

It's just not fair to say that leagues aren't important, though. They're the bedrock of war seasons. Individual wars are *by design* less important than before. Full seasons are what you're trying to win. I think you're looking back at the old war system with very rose colored glasses, though. It had a TON of problems. Yes, individual wars were more important, but that's because there was no alternative. That's all there was. A very wise young man helped design the new War Seasons update, and I think he should think back to how he felt about the old war system at the time. He was very astute in identifying the problems with the old wars!

"league" blessings perform two functions: 1) They help to level the playing field between the alliances in a league in what is, honestly, a very short war season. It does, in my opinion, help make each war more meaningful because it doesn't give an extra bonus to the strongest alliances in a league or the alliances who got lucky the war before and won blessings. Wars aren't always a fair fight. This helps make them fairer, imo. 2) They provide an incentive to move up from league to league (but not necessarily win a war in a specific week). Just like in a professional sports season, individual matches are important, but they aren't the focus. Winning the season is the focus. A team can start poorly but finish strong. The shorter the season (and this is a very short one in OR) the more important the individual matchups become, but the season is the goal.

Edited by dumpster

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i believe ppl already suggested for war blessings to have power lvls based on league lvl. which would cover all those above.
when we give war blessings a lvl and when distribute them by team rankings in each league we can easily bring them to all leagues. so even new players are not bothered by them but can have a taste of them, and they learn them gradually and when they move up, they face them in a more serious manner, for more challenge.

this will make war blessings a war blessings and a chance for all to go for them regarding the power of their league, what else could a fair player ask for.

i understand that suggested system is frustrating for ppl who are used to just sit and receive blessings in full and even some who are used to keep the special blessings to their own , but the system that ppl suggested in this topic benefits most players and not just few , unlike current distribution.

i also understand that system would be frustrating for teams who want make deals at war , this will totally be against them, or players who just want to have wars blessings in full at their bank for no reason, just to feel safe!  , but it's in fact good for everyone to have a flow of war blessings in the system. when water stays somewhere for a long time without movement it gets rotten.

and probably devs too felt all these or some of them and made them ask for feedback, so here it goes. all these wonderful ideas that ppl had.

i apologize if i used some expert terms in my cement example, that might not be obvious to all. but i assure you that example is correct regarding basic and expert view both. i also understand that you say that's not how you see those terms and their roles . which is a fair point, so we agree that those war terms have different meanings to us. i see wars as the core of the game which keeps it going. i assume you believe in more weight to leagues. anyway.

and i totally disagree that league blessings are doing anything useful except rendering wars meaningless , they are just making wars dead regarding the things i mentioned recently on previous posts, and are making the word "reward" meaningless, cause they are given to all the ranks the same,  which is not fair in any reward system.

and this suggested system also gives a reason to anyone at any rank  at any war! to move on for next spot above, it's simply a "go get it" . what else could a player ask for, while current system doesn't , next spot is same as previous one, so it's a "go to sleep" instead 😀. this is also not reasonable for a live system i believe. 🤨

and last, i think  you forgot to add that current system is also frustrating for ppl who want to play wars for more than self pleasure, but for a competition. which is my kind. and i hope i am not alone 😀, in titan league 1st-4th places are rewarded different blessings so the idea is just to expand that concept to all leagues and to all the rankings in a league . it's not something unknown to current system at all just needs to be expanded more.

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So after read all pages. What people wants in reality its like Royal Revolt 2? During the War the fiefdoms class each 6 teams. At the end #1 got all War boost. By example Dragofroster,Gargoyle Nest and Surprise Mummy. #2 Got Dragofroster and Surprise Mummy and #3 got only Surprise Mummy #4,5 and 6 got nothing 

So here The War should class the alliance depending the torch they gain. If the War boost is Chaos Gate, Siren and Medusa. If someone do 4 torch gain all. #2 got 3 torch get Siren and Medusa and #3 got Medusa

Fair and square for all

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Everything that elite ones who desperately defend indefensible wrote here can be summarized into this:

1. We can have all war blessings,you can't! (Yes,you heard well.Before,we weren't able to get them because we lost too many wars from almost same teams like now,but at least we can have basic war blessings permanently!)

2.This league system is-Training camp for League of Titans,come join us! (Your alliances still exists? Anyway,thanks for your former members,you trained them well!)

So,what is really rude and unforgivable is that elite members know that this game is dying and they just don't want to admit-currently war blessings distribution is failure.

Greed and their selfishness will kill this game.

 

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On 2/9/2019 at 12:55 PM, Adamk said:

@Madlen I think this topic is almost clear. Its like rich become richer and the poor become poorer day by day.

Can we hope something now?? 

Just about every proposal made here makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker, it's just changing the focus from a global one to individual leagues. The strong teams in each league would be able to bully the weak teams much better. I'd say about 25% of the player base would be happy with the popular suggestions here, just a different 25% than now. The majority of players in Gods League, and even Demi-Gods will I think be pretty upset with the idea of getting fewer blessings than before and the ones they do have are weaker. Bad deal for them.

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51 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Just about every proposal made here makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker, it's just changing the focus from a global one to individual leagues.

I think that's true and always the difficult problem. Maybe more intra-league divisions can help and with added new/smart rewards eventually lead to solution with interest vs. fairness. And I saw the skins in the rr2 update pretty cool definitely welcome that in OR.

P.S. Nuclear launches detected..... XD

 

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37 minutes ago, genovamao said:

I think that's true and always the difficult problem. Maybe more intra-league divisions can help and with added new/smart rewards eventually lead to solution with interest vs. fairness. And I saw the skins in the rr2 update pretty cool definitely welcome that in OR.

P.S. Nuclear launches detected..... XD

 

I think if the main issue is that too many alliances will never get the opportunity to use phalanx walls + chaos gates, and never have the chance to compete for the 3 new blessings, the best and fairest solution to that problem is to give all ranked alliances access to the 6 normal war blessings and just make them stronger or weaker depending on which league you're in. I don't think most alliances at lower levels can afford 6 war blessings, but at least they'll all have the same opportunity. This also isn't an amazing solution for God's or Demi-Gods, who get access to 1 or 2 more blessings at the cost of weaker blessings overall, but it's maybe not the end of the world. I tend to prefer keeping things the way they are now, but this might be the best, fairest compromise. If you want, make the new blessings the reward for 1st-3rd in every league, at appropriate strengths.

I personally don't buy the argument that an uneven inter-league blessing distribution would somehow make competition great.  I think there are some alliances that would be motivated by that, but they're also the alliances who are already in the running most seasons for promotion to the next league. I don't think it's worth making already lopsided matchups more lopsided in favor of the strongest teams in a league.

I completely agree that more leagues would help! If you give every league every blessing you're not locked in to needing 6 leagues to make the structure balance. Make 25 leagues! Have the gems, gold, and strength of blessings increase with every league. The smaller the leagues, the more equal the competition will be, the better the wars will be. DOWNSIDE: It will take a strong new alliance longer to win their way into the most appropriate league for their power level. Consider: advanced seeding algorithms to automatically seed unranked alliances.

You could make every league 8 alliances. You play every alliance once per season. I don't know if it's the most realistic option, but go through the leagues and make 8-alliance subdivisions based on the results of last season. Each one of those is a very compelling division. Even expanded to 12, it's compelling. I think that's half the reason Titan league wars are so much fun, even though there's a big spread from top to bottom. The last war is usually crucial because there are only a few possible matchups left by the end of the season, and some of those head to head matchups decide the whole leaderboard.

Edited by dumpster

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