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feedback wanted War blessings distribution

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9 hours ago, dumpster said:

Just about every proposal made here makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker, it's just changing the focus from a global one to individual leagues. The strong teams in each league would be able to bully the weak teams much better. I'd say about 25% of the player base would be happy with the popular suggestions here, just a different 25% than now. The majority of players in Gods League, and even Demi-Gods will I think be pretty upset with the idea of getting fewer blessings than before and the ones they do have are weaker. Bad deal for them.

I don't see many "top players" posting here, so me and dumpster have been posting in the last few pages of this topic. We both want a better system, without unbalancing the current one. We both seem to agree that it can get better, but some suggestions here, will make the strong stronger, and the weak weaker... which we don't like or want that. Yet I see some posts here, blaming actually the "elite" players for *wanting more*. It's sad that people can't understand, or just post biased messages... I can't think of them directing this to anyone else, and if they are, it would be better if they distinguish some trying to benefit smaller/lower ranked teams... just plain courtesy and respect.

I have disregarded these messages, but they should look into it. Personally I have mentioned a few proposals, that weaken the strong - high ranked alliances. Yet we are *all* getting accused for wanting more. It's disrespectful to put the effort here, while getting the blame for exactly the opposite... at least for me. Taking it a step further, bluntly accusing "elite" players, imho will not take you anywhere, but only discourage the devs of taking any actions... You want to make this count? Quote this "player" that seeks more power, and argue with him, and try to explain to him why you think this will give him "more power", or make him stronger. Let's have a proper debate or discussion.

This can't get anywhere if we just see hate posts, of 1 line/sentence. Rather suggest something, which makes sense, or find a suggestion you tend to agree and lets work on that.

I think the only reasonable (without question) suggestion, is bringing in the ranking blessings... It was here before, and it will solve the following:

1) Teams being rewarded based on their performance but still competing for all blessings. Better than before for all weaker teams.
2) All teams will experienced most or all blessings, even at lower leagues. No matter if they do not have the money to prolong ALL blessings. Better than before for all weaker teams.
3) It will allow for more competitiveness for the majority of the lower rank teams, with more blessings. Better than before for all weaker teams.
4) Really low league or ranked teams do not get overpowered in their league, because of all those high level blessings, that top league uses, that makes sense, if the blessing is ranked/scaled, then it's going to be fitting for their league. It's also blessing they didn't have before, so it's a positive outcome for them. Better than before for all weaker teams.
5) It could very well be no blessings outside the war, so that regular play is not disturbed. Or the other way around, these blessings not for war, so there is no downside when a lower ranked team is facing a higher rank team. This is a pain-free process... Either way: Better than before for all weaker teams.

How much clearer can that get ? And if you want to take away something from top ranked teams, be my guess... suggest something here!!!

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my system doesn't make weak weaker and doesn't feed strong teams for nothing as it is now, it's balanced , i also see some other suggested systems here which will do the same. whoever wanted to know what the "making strong teams stronger" mean is free to go watch the team rankings and compare with previous system

this current system is the definition of making stronge stronger and making a big gap between leagues. while these suggested systems easily fix all these

if we say ppl get "upset" and that's all we have to say and build up on, then let's put reasoning and logic behind and go with emotions in making decision.

ppl got upset when athena was nerfed when ajax and hercules were , when items were nerfed, but it was needed and the right decision, taking back something that was given by mistake is nothing wrong.

and developers showed they are willing to do the reasonable thing rather going with emotions.

Edited by HADESv2

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4 minutes ago, HADESv2 said:

my system doesn't make weak weaker and doesn't feed strong teams for nothing as it is now, it's balanced , i also see some other suggested systems here which will do the same. whoever wanted to know what the "making strong teams stronger" mean is free to go watch the team rankings and compare with previous system

this current system is the definition of making stronge stronger and making a big gap between leagues. while these suggested systems easily fix all these

if we say ppl get "upset" and that's all we have to say and build up on, then let's put reasoning and logic behind and go with emotions in making decision.

ppl got upset when athena was nerfed when ajax and hercules were , when items were nerfed, but it was needed and the right decision, taking back something that was given by mistake is nothing wrong.

and developers showed they are willing to do the reasonable thing rather going with emotions.

People got upset about the Athena nerf and complained and she got Re-buffed. People are upset about the blessings distribution and that’s why we have this thread. 

Giving more blessings to the alliances within a league who are already strong makes them stronger. Giving fewer blessings to the weakest team in a league makes them weaker. The strong get stronger, the weak get weaker. 

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what about other nerfs? and she didn't get like before. had nothing to say about them? obviously

and no your weaker stronger statement which is falsifying was already rejected and explained if you forgot you can always go back and read instead of repeating it,

what makes teams stronger is giving them special blessings for no reason and taking it from the rest of the game.

Edited by HADESv2

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2 minutes ago, HADESv2 said:

what about other nerfs? and she didn't get like before. had nothing to say about them? obviously

and no your weaker stronger statement which is falsifying was already rejected and explained if you forgot you can always go back and read instead of repeating it,

what makes teams stronger is giving them special blessings for no reason and taking it from the rest of the game.

First paragraph: yes, people get upset about every nerf. The only ones I can remember people not getting upset about were nyx nerfs and odyssey difficulty nerfs. 

2nd paragraph: not to be argumentative, but you rejected it without any kind of logic or evidence besides “no that won’t happen”, which isn’t really a logic based argument. But I’d be very happy to hear a good rebuttal if you have new thoughts on it. 

3rd paragraph: you’re suggesting taking a situation in the global game you find distasteful and applying that to war. I think that’s a bad idea. Do you understand that point? I can explain it more if you don’t. 

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31 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Yes. We give the possibility to all leagues to have all the blessings, but not as strong.  This gives the chance for everyone to try blessings, second it allows possibly a better distribution of these 9 blessings, within the same league.

An example would be to copy the Titan league structure of blessings (or similar) and give it to some or all lower leagues, but with weaker blessings. Similar to what we had before with torches, but now its based on league(s).

Now berore any hate, I am not saying this is the best solution, but its solves a lot of problems. If anyone here says “but the strong stay strong”, then suggest something else or add to this idea, because this way at least makes weaker -> stronger, so able to compete better than before vs the elite. And the reason I say NO, to equal power blessings in lower leagues, is because 1) we must not remove the motivation of people wanting to get to a higher league/rank/trophy and also because 2) a level 100 player in a lower league alliance, is usually fighting similar players/levels. Which means he can’t be required to fight a 100 level player with 145 level equal blessings. That would unbalalnce the fights hugely, promoting only the winners of each league with the most powerful blessings, regardless of league/level. 

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Just now, Archimides said:

Yes. We give the possibility to all leagues to have all the blessings, but not as strong.  This gives the chance for everyone to try blessings, second it allows possibly a better distribution of these 9 blessings, within the same league.

An example would be to copy the Titan league structure of blessings (or similar) and give it to some or all lower leagues, but with weaker blessings. Similar to what we had before with torches, but now its based on league(s).

Now berore any hate, I am not saying this is the best solution, but its solves a lot of problems. If anyone here says “but the strong stay strong”, then suggest something else or add to this idea, because this way at least makes weaker -> stronger, so able to compete better than before vs the elite. And the reason I say NO, to equal power blessings in lower leagues, is because 1) we must not remove the motivation of people wanting to get to a higher league/rank/trophy and also because 2) a level 100 player in a lower league alliance, is usually fighting similar players/levels. Which means he can’t be required to fight a 100 level player with 145 level equal blessings. That would unbalalnce the fights hugely, promoting only the winners of each league with the most powerful blessings, regardless of league/level. 

I think this is the best compromise. And you absolutely can’t have full strength war blessings in lower leagues. War blessings are currently all one strength, it’s not based on player level or torches or anything.  A league of warriors siren has the same blessing as league of titans. The difficulty control comes from only having to face a single full strength blessing. If you give access to all 6, it would have to come from somewhere else. 

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completely opposite of what you say, like always.

i explained in 2 cases how your strong get stronger is falsifying, and described in full. yet your logic! went ahead of you and instead of answering to it you left it be, and talked about flu which made everyone laugh ofc. it wasn't a just cause 🤣 it were two paragraphs.

so just cause you don't remember it, doesn't mean it's not physically available on this topic.

no sir my suggestion fixes the mistakes that current system has, and gives wars a cause, if you had something new to say i will be always willing to hear.

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8 minutes ago, HADESv2 said:

completely opposite of what you say, like always.

i explained in 2 cases how your strong get stronger is falsifying, and described in full. yet your logic! went ahead of you and instead of answering to it you left it be, and talked about flu which made everyone laugh ofc. it wasn't a just cause 🤣 it were two paragraphs.

so just cause you don't remember it, doesn't mean it's not physically available on this topic.

no sir my suggestion fixes the mistakes that current system has, and gives wars a cause, if you had something new to say i will be always willing to hear.

What do you see as the flaws of your system? Every system has flaws. 

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@Archimides

yes , if we bring all blessings to all leagues there should be a lvl, first due to difficulty and second to prevent abusing the system by going down and up in leagues,

for example one team can go down take it full and come up. so if it goes by lvls it will also prevent this.

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On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 2:17 PM, HADESv2 said:

- right now after 2 wars it's obvious who gets promoted and who gets demoted in most leagues and after 2 wars there's no reason to play wars, why? cause we will get everything why would we even try? they are given for free anyway, this is what makes the teams make more deals etc and makes wars totally meaningless.by a simple look at leagues tables right now this is an obvious matter, so rankings shall make a difference like suggested. 


    - previous system every single island we win or lose had 1 big compact on war blessings distribution (who gets what) and a small compact on how powerful they would be in long run so there was a reason for any team at any standing to play for next island , right now there's not, even if we don't play after 2nd war we won't get anything more or lose anything at all. leaves teams and leagues with zero courage to go on for win.

Would you agree that theoretically if the leagues are further split into smaller divisions of 12-8 alliances and in combination with a graded reward + blessing strength system based on division level that these problems would be mostly resolved? On top of that all war blessings would be accessible.

Of course it may take sometime to implement fully with all the interface trimmings so maybe just bootstrap soft brackets within leagues for now (shaded by different colors).

Edited by genovamao

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@dumpster

i would have to think more to give a proper answer to that because if i had seen a major flaw in it i would correct ,but i read couple terms through the topic which seemed correct to me which i will mention.

first it's a change and like you said ppl get upset, we are giving them for free now and after that they have to fight to get it. so question is are we willing to fix it or no, let it get worse.

second, top players that won't be getting all blessings would complain why did the system change, and left them out of their comfort zone! i would expect to see such thing happen less often in lower leagues, since they are already missing the critical war blessings.

third if by chance 2 teams that "imagine" they are equal in war score and activity , face each other, and one loses to the other, that one will come complain about system rather than accepting they had lower scores or activity.

fourth , i don't recall how powerful are the lvl 1 planax or  lvl 1 chaos gate, for lowest leagues ,this needs some study from devs,

fifth, if devs intentionally ruined all leagues in favor of upper leagues(for whatever reason), my system is against their goal , cause this system is for all leagues to have competition.(my own, not read on topic.)

i think these are the things that i read and were related. but as is obvious all of them are due to we have given something out by mistake and will be resistance taking it back now.

while i believe if that suggested system would have been implemented right after previous system non of above would happen. that's exactly why i believe the system is not bad.

phil also had ideas of rewarding some of the blessings to the score sum of a team at the end of seasons , ofc each league a different score to unlock sth. i believe this can also be implemented cause it's exactly rewarding war activity again.

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23 minutes ago, genovamao said:

Would you agree that theoretically if the leagues are further split into smaller divisions of 12-8 alliances and in combination with a graded reward + blessing strength system based on division level that these problems would be mostly resolved? On top of that all war blessings would be accessible.

Of course it may take sometime to implement fully with all the interface trimmings so maybe just bootstrap soft brackets within leagues for now (shaded by different colors).

to make sure i understood it correctly, you suggest to have leagues of 12 teams and expand the number of leagues, yet still reward all the teams in a league the same, and give them blessings with a power which is based on league lvls, this is definitely 1 part of what i see,

2nd part was rewarding based on ranking inside each league to make wars meaningful again.

about making more leagues , i didn't think about it myself , what changes do you believe more leagues can bring us?

Edited by HADESv2

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1 hour ago, HADESv2 said:

@dumpster

i would have to think more to give a proper answer to that because if i had seen a major flaw in it i would correct ,but i read couple terms through the topic which seemed correct to me which i will mention.

Just a word of advice: If you're willing to identify flaws with your proposal, it makes your argument stronger. It shows that you're thinking about it critically and exploring any potential negative consequences, both likely and unlikely. I've brought up several about your system, and honestly you've hand-waived them away saying they won't be problems. This doesn't make your case stronger, it makes it weaker.

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first it's a change and like you said ppl get upset, we are giving them for free now and after that they have to fight to get it. so question is are we willing to fix it or no, let it get worse.

Explain the giving for free part, because this also makes your argument much, much weaker, especially to the audience you're trying to convince (the Devs). They think that alliances in higher leagues EARN the blessings they have access to. They think that fighting and staying in higher leagues is an achievement that should be rewarded. They think it's a bigger (or no less than equal) achievement than ranking at the top of a lower league. This is the baseline we're starting from. So if you think this isn't true, what's the argument you would use to convince the people who matter? My opinion doesn't matter here, but it happens to be the same as the devs' opinion.

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second, top players that won't be getting all blessings would complain why did the system change, and left them out of their comfort zone! i would expect to see such thing happen less often in lower leagues, since they are already missing the critical war blessings.ctly rewarding war activity again.

I've said a number of times that these aren't the only groups of players who would be annoyed by your system. The players in the middle and lower half of every league, who aren't strong enough to place in the top half of the league, would get fewer, weaker blessings under your system. I think that they also would complain. I think your system would be beneficial for a portion of the player base, and in a lot of cases a different portion of the player base . Different is interesting but it isn't always better.

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third if by chance 2 teams that "imagine" they are equal in war score and activity , face each other, and one loses to the other, that one will come complain about system rather than accepting they had lower scores or activity.

We have seen in this thread that players complain about all sorts of things. We had a player say that they are getting crushed on defense because of the war blessings of titan league players, when they had the same access to offensive war blessings. Players will use any perceived imbalance as an excuse to feel ripped off and whine. Players currently do not complain about inequal war blessings during war, except in 2 cases: when alliances were allowed to prolong blessings they shouldn't have access to in their league or based on how they performed and when alliances get pushed up to a higher league mid war and aren't allowed to buy the blessings of that league. They complain because it creates an unequal playing field. They are right to complain about that. Your proposal would create even MORE of an unequal playing field. It would take all the things you currently don't like about the global war blessing distribution system and transpose them to leagues during war. It's not fiction, it's 100% what will happen. How do you respond to that?

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i think these are the things that i read and were related. but as is obvious all of them are due to we have given something out by mistake and will be resistance taking it back now.

while i believe if that suggested system would have been implemented right after previous system non of above would happen. that's exactly why i believe the system is not bad.

Ok, well you can't just ignore that blessings have been distributed one way for 9 months, and a change that results in taking away blessings from players who have been earning them (yes) for 9 months, and some, maybe, who just won them, is not going to be received well. Changes like that never are. So if you're going to acknowledge that you're really going to cheese off a large portion of the player base with a game change, it better be for a damn good change with a damn good reason. I think uneven interleague blessings is not universally better than what we have now, it's only better for a different part of the player base. That's not a compelling reason to, like I said, cheese off a whole bunch more players.

Edited by dumpster

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46 minutes ago, HADESv2 said:

o make sure i understood it correctly, you suggest to have leagues of 12 teams and expand the number of leagues, yet still reward all the teams in a league the same, and give them blessings with a power which is based on league lvls, this is definitely 1 part of what i see,

2nd part was rewarding based on ranking inside each league to make wars meaningful again.

 

Yes that’s correct. I am not sure about the number of the teams so 12-8 is range. Let’s take the low bound for now.

In an 8 alliances divisions or new leagues the competition would be naturally fierce since there is not many places in the middle to hang around in. There is also the advantage of more fair matching making and through that encourage more participation. It will take some time for every alliance to settle to the right placing though just as the current leagues.

If you now combine the above with a correctly designed reward and blessing strength system attached to the division level, then it would make victories meaningful again and wars more exciting. So just to be clear a higher division would get more gems, progression items and stronger blessings (of course up to discussion). This will also to some extent remove the sense of stagnation in the current leagues where smaller progressions as an alliance is not rewarded and thus explicitly valuable to the player. With these smaller divisions the progression will also be made easier in the sense that the improvements needed to promote will be more reachable and made clearer to the alliances, instead of some nebulous feeling of impossibility or just confusion of what is needed to get higher placements.

Finally, you would avoid more balancing efforts in the game with all war blessings made accessible to all and only differing in strength. And on top of that you build on league system and not take it down (or rework it significantly - speculating now) so there should be less game destroying bugs if and when implemented.

What do you think? Workable in General?

Edited by genovamao

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30 minutes ago, genovamao said:

 

Yes that’s correct. I am not sure about the number of the teams so 12-8 is range. Let’s take the low bound for now.

In an 8 alliances divisions or new leagues the competition would be naturally fierce since there is not many places in the middle to hang around in. There is also the advantage of more fair matching making and through that encourage more participation. It will take some time for every alliance to settle to the right placing though just as the current leagues.

If you now combine the above with a correctly designed reward and blessing strength system attached to the division level, then it would make victories meaningful again and wars more exciting. So just to be clear a higher division would get more gems, progression items and stronger blessings (of course up to discussion). This will also to some extent remove the sense of stagnation in the current leagues where smaller progressions as an alliance is not rewarded and thus explicitly valuable to the player. With these smaller divisions the progression will also be made easier in the sense that the improvements needed to promote will be more reachable and made clearer to the alliances, instead of some nebulous feeling of impossibility or just confusion of what is needed to get higher placements.

Finally, you would avoid more balancing efforts in the game with all war blessings made accessible to all and only differing in strength. And on top of that you build on league system and not take it down (or rework it significantly - speculating now) so there should be less game destroying bugs if and when implemented.

What do you think? Workable in General?

The major flaw I can see is that, especially with a 8-alliance leagues, but even with 12, it would take far too long for a high-powered low-ranked alliance to progress to the correct league for their ability, and far to long for a high-ranked alliance who merged/quit to drop to the correct league for their ability.  Many would argue that this mechanism is already too slow.

One solution would be active seeding, placing alliances in a league based on some power ranking independant of wins/losses. Another compromise solution would be to make leagues larger than 8 or 12 but still smaller than they are now. It would still take an alliance longer to climb/fall, but not as long.

Edited by dumpster

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Just a word of advice: If you're willing to identify flaws with your proposal, it makes your argument stronger. It shows that you're thinking about it critically and exploring any potential negative consequences, both likely and unlikely. I've brought up several about your system, and honestly you've hand-waived them away saying they won't be problems. This doesn't make your case stronger, it makes it weaker.

sir i have already approved several times that you are a person who's ideas and statements contradict each other in a discussion,

how can such person advice me of how to do things? unlike you , i don't post on forums with raw ideas and passion , i work on them and when they become ready i post them, and sir you are a player just like me, it doesn't work that way that you just put your personal idea next to mind and call mine got problems or call mine are wrong. i will simply put mine aside yours and call them wrong, is that good enough for you then? you need to bring statements and reasons to why mine are wrong not just cause you don't like them , only thing you brought so far was your personal preferences and passion, i saw no logic and reason yet.

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Explain the giving for free part, because this also makes your argument much, much weaker, especially to the audience you're trying to convince (the Devs). They think that alliances in higher leagues EARN the blessings they have access to. They think that fighting and staying in higher leagues is an achievement that should be rewarded. They think it's a bigger achievement than ranking at the top of a lower league. This is the baseline we're starting from. So if you think this isn't true, what's the argument you would use to convince the people who matter? My opinion doesn't matter here, but it happens to be the same as the devs' opinion.

i will have to disagree on several parts here, first i already explained what i mean a lot , and whenever i feel i have to write something or add it for devs to read, i would not propose it to you ofc, i will add it to my first post for devs to read and whoever read first post so far found that it's based on reasons and you are free to think otherwise.

2nd thing i want to mention is you use a term " they think" here. since your statements were mere imaginations, you felt maybe talking instead of devs shall give power to your words but actually it made them worthless, cause you are not a dev to say "they think" to make your statements get stronger. so feel free to drop that attitude. it won't help you sir. and all those comes from a person who used to say war blessings are not a motivation and now claims they are enough of a reward! please also add this to your so many other contradictions sir ,  i would suggest first make up your mind then post them. and no one liked those ideas here either way, so even if you shout them, no one buys them.

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I've said a number of times that these aren't the only groups of players who would be annoyed by your system. The players in the middle and lower half of every league, who aren't strong enough to place in the top half of the league, would get fewer, weaker blessings under your system. I think that they also would complain. I think your system would be beneficial for a portion of the player base, and in a lot of cases a different portion of the player base . Different is interesting but it isn't always better.

you have said, and i told otherwise and disagreed with you, what makes that" i've said" thing to be better? do you have anything to backup your words except that "'i've said"?  i mean we are on a forum and you have said so many contradicted sentences so far , just going by" i've said" doesn't mean it's correct,

i think the only complains would be based on " why we had them and now we don't have them". exactly like you made so far. and that's expected after making a wrong distribution correct.

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We have seen in this thread that players complain about all sorts of things. We had a player say that they are getting crushed on defense because of the war blessings of titan league players, when they had the same access to offensive war blessings. Players will use any perceived imbalance as an excuse to feel ripped off and whine. Players currently do not complain about inequal war blessings during war, except in 2 cases: when alliances were allowed to prolong blessings they shouldn't have access to in their league or based on how they performed and when alliances get pushed up to a higher league mid war and aren't allowed to buy the blessings of that league. They complain because it creates an unequal playing field. They are right to complain about that. Your proposal would create even MORE of an unequal playing field. It would take all the things you currently don't like about the global war blessing distribution system and transpose them to leagues during war. It's not fiction, it's 100% what will happen. How do you respond to that?

well now that you said it, i see that my system also solves that ,only couple teams are going to have all blessings at 5/5 or full power in that system, so the chance of such thing  you described about to happen is reduced by a large margin , i didn't know my system covers everything, glad to remind me that sir.

 

Edited by HADESv2

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4 hours ago, HADESv2 said:

well now that you said it, i see that my system also solves that ,only couple teams are going to have all blessings at 5/5 or full power in that system, so the chance of such thing  you described about to happen is reduced by a large margin , i didn't know my system covers everything, glad to remind me that sir.

Please explain how! :)

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16 hours ago, dumpster said:

Please explain how! :)

i was talking about the term that you mentioned ppl complain on daily map match makings.
to make sure we are on the same page, please point specifically on which term you want explanation, i didn't understand.

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2 hours ago, HADESv2 said:

i was talking about the term that you mentioned ppl complain on daily map match makings.
to make sure we are on the same page, please point specifically on which term you want explanation, i didn't understand.

How your system solves the problem of uneven war blessing distribution on the island map. It seems to me that, at least with the similar plan Dheth proposed, different alliances would have max blessings, but more in total. So there would still be haves and have-nots, and you’d still be fighting against a lot of chaos gates on the island map. 

On top of that, you’d be transposing a system people don’t like — unequal war blessings — on to a part of the game that currently has equal war blessings (war). 

Here’s the list of things people complain about during war:

- being matched with teams that are tough (mismatches)

-  being matched with teams who have more players than they have

- being matched with teams with only high level players that are too hard for low level players 

- being double teamed 

- being matched with teams who have war blessings that should have expired when they dropped a league 

- former top 3 teams who retained top 3 blessings after they fell out of the top 3

- being promoted to a higher league mid season and not being immediately able to buy the war blessings for that league

Things players don’t complain about:

- being matched with high ranked teams in their league who have more blessings than they have

-being doubleteamed by two alliances who both have full war blessings so they don’t want to fight each other 

-not getting as many war blessings as they used to have even though they’re still in the same league and the wars they fight are just as hard as ever. 

So in addition to all the things players currently complain about, my concern about adopting an unequal inter-league blessing scheme is that players will then also complain about all those other things they’re not complaining about now (I.e. the things about the blessing distribution that are working). 

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ppl will face them in a weaker manner ofc than now like 4/5 3/5 and else and not all of them at 5/5 ,

but like you mentioned it before yourself that's a term that should be solved regarding match making system and i didn't plan my war distribution system to only look after a match making system issue either. but since you mentioned it i said it will cover that issue to some points. we can open a tread and discuss that more there.

--------------

i also if you don't mind i have 2 critics regarding the terms that you use " unequal playing field " and your "unbalance" terms.

1-

what you simply call unequal playing field is what this game elements were made on, it seems to me and i will describe below.

(at a war session): we have different lvls , different unit lvls, different spell lvls, different divine blessings lvls , different item powers , different threshold of enhancements etc. yet we get matched . and you say ppl complain about all or some of these , great.

if one goes by your logic shall ask devs to even all of these terms, not just 1 (war blessings)! unless you are being specifically misleading things here by using such term only on my suggested war blessings distribution.

now, what makes you think the other terms i counted above, spells,units, etc , shall be earned! but war blessings "alone" shall be given to all the league the same? i think war blessings should be earned too based on war activity. simple as it is. game elements shows it that way. and everything together creates that unequal playing field, so just pointing it at war blessings is misleading and far from real.

going by such logic and approach to war blessings that you show here,(that they must be distributed the same inside of a league to have an even battlefield!), means we shall also even all other terms, like to give titan league, units at max lvl at the end of season to all, so it gets even. in god's league we shall give, units near max lvl so it gets even etc, and do the same for spells , enhancements , divine blessings and so on. this is where that logic follows.

if those above happen, then finally one like you with such approach, can claim he is talking about an even battlefield inside a league. and he has had logic at least, regardless of that idea is working or not! i won't judge this. maybe it works maybe not.

now if one wants to question devs why they created this game like this, go ahead and ask them , unlike you i can not answer things in their place and talk on their behalf.

i give you an example, when i talked to Chris (either he was a staff, dev or working with them , i don't know, but he was presenting the enhancements update that time) there i mentioned how "enhancements" will make the battlefield uneven! in a long run and in an irreversible way too.
he said: that's what a game supposed to be like, and what do i expect? that someone who spends lotta money be same as one who doesn't? he said: you haven't played an online game if you are expecting it to be same for everyone, this not something new.

i mentioned this mostly regarding your "ppl will complain about uneven battlefield statement" .i didn't see ppl complain where an uneven battlefield was vastly introduced and implemented then! i was just 1 and also 1 other person backed up me there. so 2. so i want to say ppl will complain about what they had before and don't have anymore. simply that. taking away the enhancements will even battlefield to a large point in war or out, now go ahead and take it and see how ppl will complain!

(i discussed that on the Olympus Rising line public chat after enhancements update)

anyway,so before "acting like" we are having an even battlefield at wars, we, specially you sir, better look at game elements and study to see if we do have such thing or if game elements are meant to be that way at first place. game elements suggest otherwise clearly.

i have a question, why should a team who has performed better be reset and put even with one who didn't in regard to war rewards which are supposed to be war blessings?
well,  we already heard that you say, we should have same war blessings in a league so there would a "even playing field" and "balance" ,

now, obviously they are not an answer, regarding to all said above, because we have so many things that are creating an uneven playing field in wars not just 1 thing to be. so if you have any other reason go ahead and mention it.

2-
even if my system is one part of all this "uneven battled field", it's not much . it will be just like other system elements i mentioned here.

i already said, i answered that term once and urged you to go read it instead,  and since you didn't i also make a "copy paste" for you.

------- page 3 somewhere.

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just for the record, do I think there's a big difference between the defense of an alliance with 5 blessings or with 6 blessings? Not really, but chaos gate is a stronger blessing than most of the others, I'd say. It can cause players to fail if they don't know what they're doing. Is there a big difference between an alliance running 4 war blessings and one running 3? Again, it's not significant

this will be the case for the teams in same competition lvl , and like you said it, that suggested distribution won't make a change.you should regard each case differently. as for teams with same competition lvl, is the case above . now lets see how it would be for teams who are already out of each other competition lvl and war result is already clear no matter what blessings be, ("if" they happen to get in a war. won't be an all time thing most definitely).

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Is there a big difference between an alliance running 6 war blessings and one running 1 war blessing? Yup. There just is. That's a huge disadvantage, and it's going to be given to the alliances who are already some of the weakest in their league. There are plenty of parts of the game that aren't real balanced. There's even plenty of imbalance already in war. One of the parts of war that is completely balanced is the distribution of war blessings.

the above would happen when war result is already clear and teams are so distanced, so wouldn't matter more or less blessings in regard of war results. like i said, that suggested distribution won't affect war results in either case of above that we talked, it was already clear when teams got matched in this 2nd case

--------

this is how i was explaining my distribution has not a big role in war results. and it's role is as much other elements of game i counted above.

whenever, all units and spells and enhancements and ascension lvls and divine blessings and their lvls got even and were rewarded to the teams in a league evenly, you can use that approach to convince us,that we should also have identical war blessings inside a league to achieve "even playing field". and since non is not that way , your approach is meaningless,

and you even mention that most parts are unbalanced but 1(which itself has been changed to what you like after 2 years), this is a really critical point i want to mention.

so it gives us a question, are you sure you are playing the correct or suitable game?

you want an "even playing field" and you claim most parts are not that way, but instead of rethinking that maybe you are wrong! you are trying to convince us we are wrong the whole time with just same balance thing that doesn't even exist. this needs real thinking.

these explains everything about that "even playing field" and "balance" terms zero to end.

 

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2 hours ago, HADESv2 said:

ppl will face them in a weaker manner ofc than now like 4/5 3/5 and else and not all of them at 5/5 ,

but like you mentioned it before yourself that's a term that should be solved regarding match making system and i didn't plan my war distribution system to only look after a match making system issue either. but since you mentioned it i said it will cover that issue to some points. we can open a tread and discuss that more there.

Problems related to matchmaking should be solved with matchmaking solutions, not war blessing distribution.

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i also if you don't mind i have 2 critics regarding the terms that you use " unequal playing field " and your "unbalance" terms.

1-

what you simply call unequal playing field is what this game elements were made on, it seems to me and i will describe below.

(at a war session): we have different lvls , different unit lvls, different spell lvls, different divine blessings lvls , different item powers , different threshold of enhancements etc. yet we get matched . and you say ppl complain about all or some of these , great.

if one goes by your logic shall ask devs to even all of these terms, not just 1 (war blessings)! unless you are being specifically misleading things here by using such term only on my suggested war blessings distribution.

now, what makes you think the other terms i counted above, spells,units, etc , shall be earned! but war blessings "alone" shall be given to all the league the same? i think war blessings should be earned too based on war activity. simple as it is. game elements shows it that way. and everything together creates that unequal playing field, so just pointing it at war blessings is misleading and far from real.

going by such logic and approach to war blessings that you show here,(that they must be distributed the same inside of a league to have an even battlefield!), means we shall also even all other terms, like to give titan league, units at max lvl at the end of season to all, so it gets even. in god's league we shall give, units near max lvl so it gets even etc, and do the same for spells , enhancements , divine blessings and so on. this is where that logic follows.

if those above happen, then finally one like you with such approach, can claim he is talking about an even battlefield inside a league. and he has had logic at least, regardless of that idea is working or not! i won't judge this. maybe it works maybe not.

now if one wants to question devs why they created this game like this, go ahead and ask them , unlike you i can not answer things in their place and talk on their behalf.

i give you an example, when i talked to Chris (either he was a staff, dev or working with them , i don't know, but he was presenting the enhancements update that time) there i mentioned how "enhancements" will make the battlefield uneven! in a long run and in an irreversible way too.
he said: that's what a game supposed to be like, and what do i expect? that someone who spends lotta money be same as one who doesn't? he said: you haven't played an online game if you are expecting it to be same for everyone, this not something new.

i mentioned this mostly regarding your "ppl will complain about uneven battlefield statement" .i didn't see ppl complain where an uneven battlefield was vastly introduced and implemented then! i was just 1 and also 1 other person backed up me there. so 2. so i want to say ppl will complain about what they had before and don't have anymore. simply that. taking away the enhancements will even battlefield to a large point in war or out, now go ahead and take it and see how ppl will complain!

(i discussed that on the Olympus Rising line public chat after enhancements update)

anyway,so before "acting like" we are having an even battlefield at wars, we, specially you sir, better look at game elements and study to see if we do have such thing or if game elements are meant to be that way at first place. game elements suggest otherwise clearly.

You're creating another strawman argument. I'm talking about giving every alliance within a league the same access to all the same enhancements. Access. In war everyone within a league has the same access to war blessings. They aren't given out for free, you still need to buy them like you need to buy divine blessings, but every team has the same access to those blessings. People complain when that access to war blessings is unequal, like when an alliance is moved up mid war and cannot buy the new blessing until the end of the season.

There will always be teams stronger than other teams, but everyone plays by the same rules. It's not one football team with 11 players and one who can only field 6 because they didn't perform well the season before. Both teams have the ability to put 11 players on the field. One team may be rich and one poor, one may have generational players and the other scrubs, but they play by the same rules. They have the same access to 11 players. 

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i have a question, why should a team who has performed better be reset and put even with one who didn't in regard to war rewards which are supposed to be war blessings?
well,  we already heard that you say, we should have same war blessings in a league so there would a "even playing field" and "balance" ,

now, obviously they are not an answer, regarding to all said above, because we have so many things that are creating an uneven playing field in wars not just 1 thing to be. so if you have any other reason go ahead and mention it.

If your plan was adopted, it would eliminate access to war blessings for the weakest teams in a league. This currently isn't how war blessing distribution works. That would be bad if it happened. It's an unequal distribution of war blessings within leagues.

Now I'm trying to make your argument stronger by pointing out these flaws. If you don't want to listen, that's fine. But if you think through these flaws and come up with a way to eliminate them, great!

Quote

this will be the case for the teams in same competition lvl , and like you said it, that suggested distribution won't make a change.you should regard each case differently. as for teams with same competition lvl, is the case above . now lets see how it would be for teams who are already out of each other competition lvl and war result is already clear no matter what blessings be, ("if" they happen to get in a war. won't be an all time thing most definitely).

the above would happen when war result is already clear and teams are so distanced, so wouldn't matter more or less blessings in regard of war results. like i said, that suggested distribution won't affect war results in either case of above that we talked, it was already clear when teams got matched in this 2nd case

So let me get this straight: in a situation where there is an obvious mismatch during war, not only should the weaker alliance lose, you're saying they should also have to spend more gems just to earn the same vp or fight the lowest ranked enemies and earn less vp just because they faced a team with way more war blessings than they have? And this is good why?

And you think people won't complain about this?

This is making the strong stronger and the weak weaker. That's what your plan doesIf that's your goal, great! Just be honest about it. Is that what you're trying to do?

Quote

-------

this is how i was explaining my distribution has not a big role in war results. and it's role is as much other elements of game i counted above.

whenever, all units and spells and enhancements and ascension lvls and divine blessings and their lvls got even and were rewarded to the teams in a league evenly, you can use that approach to convince us,that we should also have identical war blessings inside a league to achieve "even playing field". and since non is not that way , your approach is meaningless,

and you even mention that most parts are unbalanced but 1(which itself has been changed to what you like after 2 years), this is a really critical point i want to mention.

so it gives us a question, are you sure you are playing the correct or suitable game?

you want an "even playing field" and you claim most parts are not that way, but instead of rethinking that maybe you are wrong! you are trying to convince us we are wrong the whole time with just same balance thing that doesn't even exist. this needs real thinking.

these explains everything about that "even playing field" and "balance" terms zero to end.

This is completely missing the point. I'll explain again if you want, but it feels like wasting my time at this point.

I hope they choose your plan! My team will do great under it. 

Edited by dumpster

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